blazing star

What do you hear in the silence? A rewrite, pin point please?

2011-11-19T01:06:00.001-08:00

A rewrite caused by a TLC dominant yahoo muse.

What do you hear

in the silence,

does silence call your name?

As the bold blazing sun rises at morn,

sunset sinking with golden nuance.

On the rise of the moon

in a sparkling star lit sky

over ocean's blue at the neap of tide.

Do you hear the silence?

Upon a cool spring breeze,

do winds whisper in your ear

while green leafs dance on large old trees.

Do you hear the frantic flutter flight

of butterflies wings,

The warning buzz of a hungry bee

The labor pains of a bursting bloom

rooted deep in fertile earth.

Sh-Hush listen to the silence

does it call your name?

What do you hear in the silence? A rewrite, pin point please?
I love it. This poem calls my spirit. What a lovely description of the beauty to be held when one quiets their mind. Perhaps there is not really such a thing as silence because our beautiful earth and the great cosmos will keep humming along, whether we listen or not. The sound of silence is the most profound melody, it's up to us just to listen. You brought me to those majestic (yet familiar) places with you in this poem. I especially love the line "The labor pains of a bursting bloom, rooted deep in fertile earth". Yes, silence calls my name.
Reply:very nice poem!!!

I LIKE IT!!

8 out of 10!

lookin' good!!
Reply:.... the hum of existence....
Reply:BEAUTIFUL Jenny! I'd give it a 9-10.

Gorgeous imagery!
Reply:This is very good , but to me perhaps just a tiny bit too heavy with adjectives. Still a great write :)
Reply:Sweet notes of nature.
Reply:very good! it was awesome!!!!

Which ONE of these PS3 Games should I get?

2011-11-19T01:06:00.000-08:00

Armored Core 4 (PS3)

Assassin's Creed (PS3)

Beowulf: The Game (PS3)

Blacksite: Area 51 (PS3)

Bladestorm: The Hundred Years War (PS3)

Blazing Angels 2: Secret Missions of World War II (PS3)

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of World War II (PS3)

Call of Duty 3 (PS3)

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3)

Cars 2 (PS3)

Clive Barker's Jericho (PS3)

Clive Barker's Jericho Special Edition (PS3)

Colin McRae: DiRT (PS3)

Conan (PS3)

Def Jam: Icon (PS3)

Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (PS3)

Dynasty Warriors: Gundam (PS3)

Enchanted Arms (PS3)

F.E.A.R. (PS3)

Fight Night Round 3 (PS3)

Folklore (PS3)

Formula One: Championship Edition (PS3)

Full Auto 2: Battlelines (PS3)

Genji: Days of the Blade (PS3)

Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3)

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (PS3)

Heavenly Sword (PS3)

Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights (PS3)

Kane %26amp; Lynch: Dead Men (PS3)

Lair (PS3)

LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga (PS3)

will continue in extension

Which ONE of these PS3 Games should I get?
All the games are great but i would choose Uncharted Drakes Fortune or Ninja Gaiden Sigma as they are exclusive to the PS3 only.
Reply:Kane %26amp; Lynch: Dead Men (PS3)

or

Soccer 2008

or

Spiderman 3...

hope this helps!

Bye!

Rizla07!
Reply:out of those you should get Assassins Creed, though you should also consider Uncharted: Drakes Fortune.
Reply:If you don't mind waiting I'd wait for GTAIV but if you want something right now, I'd get Assassins Creed.
Reply:Top 3...

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Assassin's Creed

And NHL 08
Reply:Resistance: Fall of Man, you'll love the online play, which is constantly updated to keep the players interested.

Half - Life Orange Box comes out next week, that should be great game to consider buying as well.
Reply:Assassin's Creed, most definitely.
Reply:Harry Potter, Ratatatouille !!!, Call of Duty 3 and 4. Search for reviews on the Net (gamespot.com etc....)
Reply:Call of Duty 4. You wont be disappointed.
Reply:Most of those arent even out yet but I would go with Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare which I just got and been playing it alot lately.Heres more details on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Dut...
Reply:Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) Or HAZE- they are both long,big and intense.
Reply:Definately Ratchet and Clank. They are amazing - best series of games ever made.
Reply:Get warhawk best game i ever played it full online it gets addictive check it out.
Reply:Assians creed bro it's so fun I'm gonna play it right now =]
Reply:Call of Duty 4. Or Assassin's Creed
Reply:uncharted is game of the week.
Reply:Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Assassins Creed, Rainbow Six: Vegas

All great
Reply:Call of Duty 4 since Assassin's Creed is a total letdown
Reply:for multiplayer - Call of duty 4

single player - Uncharted -drake's fortune

btw, are u advertising for PS3? :D
Reply:DO NOT GET : Grand Theft Auto IV due to REALLY bad graphics.

Get : Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

Great game.

A bit pricey BUT REALLY WORTH THE MONEY!
Reply:dont limit yourself will you
Reply:all of them if youre interested in them
Reply:Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (PS3)

best game ever
Reply:the simpsons game...that game is the BEST game ever! or you should get Halo.
Reply:All of them if you want your brain to turn into jelly and die.

Your view of the end of the world?

2011-11-19T01:05:00.003-08:00

What do you think the end of the world, the fall of man, whatever you want to call it will be like? There are tons of different views.

-Judgement Day

-Ragnarok

-Meteor (well, with that one that might hit in 2037(?), its probably on more than a few minds).

-Nuclear War

-Global Warming

-The gradual diminishing of our species maybe, or the universe. From the little bit we know of cosmology and the fate of the universe at this point, it seems that the universe is expanding infinitely, and it is speeding up. The theory that protons have a half life of something like 10^26 years. That black holes evaporate. Stars die out. Its kind of sad to think about, instead of a big crunch, the gradual loss of everything.

Me? The fantasy geek in me likes Ragnarok, or if you know your Tolkien, "Dagor Dagorlath" (Tolkien based it off Ragnarok, so they are similar). I like the idea of going out in a blaze of glory. The scientist in me says nuclear war, or the gradual diminishing of it all.

You?

Your view of the end of the world?
=poof, gone, so sad but so many people disrespect people and nature.
Reply:THE DAY OF ENLIGHTENMENT FOR 144.000 IN ALL THAT ARE SAVED ON THE YEAR OF 2013 MONTH IS SEALED AND DAY ALSO YEAR IS KNOW/TIME/TIMES AND A HALF OF TIME NUMBER 1 TO 9 /TIME=2O TIMES=21 HALF OF TIME =10/GET IT .I FULFILL THE PART ON PAGE 666 OLD TESTAMENT.REASON OF THE END,MANKIND NO LONGER BELIEVES IN THE WORD OF GOD ,IN FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS.WHERE TOLD AND WARNED TO STOP KILLING MOTHER EARTH BY THE OIL TAKEN FROM HER IS HER BLOOD.PRESSURE WITHIN HER KEEPING THE MOUNTAINS FROM FALLING IN .WOE ON THE WORLD BRINGING THE END UPON YOU ALLBEHOLD OIL=O=6 I=9 L=3 COMES TO 18:6,6,6. NO OIL=N=5 O=6=11+18=29 THE END=T=2 H=8 E=5 E=5 N=5 D=4 COMES TO 29
Reply:It is written in the Bible, nobody knows.
Reply:the end is nigh

read the book of Revelations in the New Testament

the end is nigh

Does this facts prove that greeks are stolling Macedonian history?? Macedonia and Alexander were never greeks?

2011-11-19T01:05:00.002-08:00

Documents of the Continued Existence of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation for a period of over 2500 years

What follows are documents that speak of the continued existence of Macedonia and of the Macedonian nation through the last 25 centuries. Macedonia is clearly distinguished from Greece (Hellas), Thrace, Illyria, Bulgaria, Serbia, and the Macedonians are likewise distinguished as distinct nation from the Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, as nation which continued to exist and survive trough the centuries (makedonika.org).

500 B.C. - 500 A.D.

Macedonia and the Macedonians as distinct nation in the works of the ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, as well in the works of the modern German, French, English, American historians.

586 A.D.

From the "Miracles of St. Demetrius of Salonika, I ": "...For if one was to imagine them in a heap, not only the Macedonians gathered in Salonika... Certainly he who inspired the Macedonians with courage..." Mirac. I, 13, p.1285-14; 1313

758-759 A.D.

From the Chronographia of Theophanes the Confessor "That year Constantine plundered the Sclavinii throughout Macedonia and subjugated the rest." Theoph., I, p.430, 21-22.

From the Chronographia Tripertita by Anastasius Bibliothecarius: "In the eighteenth year of his reign, Constantine enslaved the Sclavinii of Macedonia and he subjugated the rest." A. B., p.282, 20-21.

8th Century

From Strabonos Epithomatus: "And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs." C. Muller, Geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882, p.574.

821-823 A.D.

From the letter of Michael II to the honorable Ludwig: "Thomas...having gathered our barges and dromon, had the opportunity to arrive in (some) parts of Thrace and Macedonia." Mansi, Michaelis Belbi et Theophilii....Florentinae, 1759

904

From On the Capture of Salonika by John Cametinae: "...I introduce you to the same, the great and the first city of the Macedonians..." J.K. Begunov, Kozma Prezviter v slavjanskih literaturah, Sofia 1976, p. 297

First half of 10th C.

From On the Themes by Constantine Porphyrogenitus: "... So from a kingdom Macedonia turned into a province and now it has reached the position of a theme and strategy." C. Porfirogenito, De thematibus, Citta del Vaticano, 1952.

986

From the History of Leo the Deacon: "...since they robbed the region of the Macedonians mercilessly, destroying all adults.". Leonis Diaconi Historiae, Paris 1864, p. 311.

1041

From the Annals of Bari: "...he had already written to Sicily from where the unfortunate Macedonians, Paulicians and Calbrians arrived." G.H. Pertz, Annales Barenses, Monumenta Germaniae historica, Scriptores V, p.53.

1064

From the Chronicle of John Zonaras: "The Uzians...invaded Macedonia and plundered it, and reached Hellada". Ioannis Zonorae Epitomae historiarum, Vol. VIII, Ed. Th. Buttner-Wobst, Bonnae 1897, p.678.

1072-1073

From the History of Necephorus Vryenius: "...for the Scythians were carrying out sudden attacks in Thrace and Macedonia." Nicephori Bryenii commentarii, Ed. A. Meicke, Bonnae 1836, p.100, 102.

1083-1085

From De expeditione Yerosolymitana by Radulfo Cadonis: "...Beomund Guiscard sailed across the Adriatic and occupied Macedonia." Tancredi in expeditione Yerosolymitana ....Paris, 1854, p.499.

c. 1106

From the letter of Theophylactes of Ohrid to Gregorius Camaterus: "...do not retain such a man in the narrow regions of our Macedonia...". Theophylacti, col. 496, B-C.

Beginning of 12th Century

From the Byzantine satire Timarion: "The day of Saint Demetrius in (Salonika) is as great a festival as the Panathinei in Athens or Panionii in Miletus; it is a grand Macedonian celebration in which not only the Macedonian people gather, but people of all sorts and from all directions: Greeks from different regions of Hellada, the Mizian tribes...". Vizantiiski Vremenik, Moscow VI 1953, p. 367.

1185

"Woe, woe, the city of Salonika is captured, I say, the metropolis of the Macedonians." Ephraimi Chronologici caesares; Ed. J.P. Migne - PG 143 , Paris 1891, p.198.

Beginning of 13th C.

From the synod records of the Ohrid Archibishopric: "Ioannis Ierakar by birth Macedonian". J. Pitra, Analacta sacra et classica specilegio Solesmensi parta, t. VI Juris ecclesiastici graecorum selecta paralipomena. Parissis et Romae 1891, col. 315.

1246

Ser was one a large city, but the Bulgarian Ivan had demolished when besieging it and other Macedonian cities. Georgii Acropolitae Opera, Recensuit A. Haisenberg vol. I, Lipsiae 1903, p.74-75, 77

1282-1321

...that king's alliance is certain and unanswering, just as long as he can settle near to Macedonia. While he was spending his time on these (matters), the protostrator Theodore Sinadinus, once freed from the West, arrived in Byzantium. He governed Prilep, the neighbouring regions and the lower Macedonian towns. Ioan Cantacuzeni Historiarum libri IV, Ed. J.P.Migne - PG Paris 1866, p.94

1305

At the battle of Apros in 1305 there were five syntaxeis, differentiated by ethnicity: the Alans and Tourkopouloi in the van, followed by the Macedonians, the Anatolians, the Vlach infantry and the Thelematarioi. The Late Byzantine Army. Mark C. Bartusis 1992. p.256

1326

...I beleive you know that Strimon...is the largest of all those that biscet Thrace and Macedonia... Nicephore Gregoras, Correspondence. Paris 1927, p.30-50.

Middle 14th C.

...Stefan became king of the Tribals. After he had set off from the region of the Ionian Sea, he razed Epidamnus to the ground, went into Macedonia and made Skopje the capital... The king left the city of Skopje, taking with him men experienced in battle and a strong army and subordinated to his rule the places in the vicinity of Kastoria. Then having moved camp, he subjugated all of Macedonia, except for Terma... Laonici Chalcocondiae Historiarum. Ed. J. P. Migne - PG t.CLIX (Paris, 1866) col. 36, B-37, C.

1349

(Code of) the honorable and Christ-loving Macedonian Tsar Stefan, Serbian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Dalmation, Arbanasian, Hungarian Wallachian and indipendent ruler of many other regions and lands... Lj. Stojanovic, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi. Knj. III, Beograd 1905, p. 41 (nbr.4949).

Middle of the 14th C.

A Slav inscription from the church of St. George at Upper Kozjak in which a man called Bratan signs himself as being from Macedonia. Z. Rosolkovska-Nikolovska, Crkvata Sv. Georgi vo Goren Kozjak vo svetlinata na novite ispituvanja - Zbornik "Kiril Solunski", Kn. I, Skopje, MANU 1970, p. 222.

15th C.

I remember the great subordination under which the Turk holds the emperor in Constantinople and all the Greeks, Macedonians and Bulgarians....As I said earlier, there are many Christians who are forced to serve the Turk, such as Greeks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Albanians, Esclavinians, Rasians and Serbians... Bertrand de la Brocuiere, Putovanje preko mora, Beograd 1950, p.134-135, 140-141.

13th Century - 15th Century

Byzantine historians of the Palaiologan period (13th Century - 15th Century) rarely make any distinction more specific then "Thrace" and "Macedonia". Thus we read of the "Thracians" and "Macedonians", the "Thracian and Macedonian armies", the "army" or "forces from Thrace and Macedonia"… For these historians the border between the two areas was the Nestos River or Kavalla. To the west was Macedonia to the east was Thrace. The Late Byzantine Army. Mark C. Bartusis 1992. p.65

1461-1462

When the enemy forces are battered, no one doubts that the whole of Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Greece or Attica and the Peloponnese will return to the faithful....Inspired by this example the Thessalians, the Greeks, the Poloponnesians, the Epirans and the Macedonians will all rebel and will win ... Jovan Radonic, Gjurac Kastriot Skenderbeg i Arbanija u XV veku - Spomenik XCV (1942), p. 128-129.

August 8th, 1470.

The Sultan stopped and spent the night ...in afield that represented the Macedonian border...The River Vardar is nearby, which flows through Macedonia...of which some are Greeks, others Macedonians, Wallachs and even Italians, as well as other nations....Greeks and Macedonians live there... Gio Mario degli Angiolelo, A. Matkovski i P. Angelkova, Nekolku kratki patopisi za Makedonija, Glasnik na INI, VXI/1 (1972), p. 246-247.

1557

...It is located in Thessaly, which borders on Macedonia, where the plague has reduced much of the population... Nbljudeni na mnozhestvo redki i zabelezhitelni neshta, videni v Grcija, Azija, Judea, Egipet, Arabia i drugi chuzhdi strani ot Pierre Belon d'Man, Sofia 1953, p.132-133; Frenski patepisi za Balkanite, XV-XVIII v. Sofia 1975, p. 95-98.

1566

...called Jakov; I laboured for much time and many years for this work (in order to contribute) to the holy books. I came out of Macedonia, my fatherland, and I entered.... Lj. Stojanovich, Stari srpski zapisi i natpisi I, p. 203-204.

1579

German ruler Rudolph II to the Pope: ..the deliverer of this letter, don Petar Crnovic...born in Salonika and the other parts of Macedonia... A. Theiner, Vitera monumenta Slavorum meridionalium illustrantia. II. Zagrabiae 1875, p. 70.

1589

Gavril, Archbishop of Ohrid to Archduke Ferdinand of Habsburg: ...the Turk, who from day to day has pursued and blackmailed us and our ancestors ....in the whole of Macedonia, Greece and the nearby countries...then among our countries we have Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Oltenia... Landesregierungsarchive - Innsbruck, VI 50.

1593

Project by Alexander Komulovic to expel the Ottomans from the Balkans ...In other parts of Epirus and Macedonia almost all are Christians of the Greek ritual... Biblioth. Barberiana cod. mnc. LVIII, 33, - Starine (Zagreb), Knj. XIV (1882), p. 86-87.

August 11th, 1607

The Duke of Savoy, Charles Emmanuel I, sends his own man of trust to Macedonia. ...who had arrived from Albania and Macedonia... V. Makrusev, Istoriski spomenici Juznih Slovena i okolnih naroda, Beograd 1882, p. 297-299.

April 6-24, 1618

(Senato Secreta. 337. Macedonia) ...The nobility of Macedon do not wish to have anything to do with the king of Spain... Calendar of State Papers and Manuscripts relating to English Affairs existing in the Archives and Collections of Venice and other libraries in Northern Italy, London 1864, Vol XV, p. 201-202.

1624

A letter from Pope Urban VIII to the Archbishop of Ohrid, Porphyrius Palaelogus To the respected brothers Porphyrius Paleologus, Patriarch of Justiniana Prima of Ohrid and the other subordinate archbishops, bishops of Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania and of the other side of Macedonia. A. Theiner, Vetera monumenta Slavorum II, (Zagrebiae 1875), p. 123.

1690

Manifesto of the Austrian Emperor Leopold I to the Nations of the Balkans ...Therefier we kindly call all the people who live throughout Albania, Servia, Mysia, Bulgaria, Silistria, Illyria, Macedonia and Rashka... J. Radonjic and M. Kostic, Srpske privilegije od 1690 do 1792. SAN, Posebna izdanja CCXXV, Beograd 1954, p. 26-27.

April 26th, 1690

Letter of protection from Leopold I. ...This is to inform you that two Macedonians, Marko Kraida born in Kosana and Dimitri Georgi Popovic, born in Macedonian Salonika, have told us that the Macedonian people, with respect for our most righteous task, with devotion and zeal towards our service....we graciously accept them under our imperial and royal mercy and in any case and way the above mantioned Macedonian people, cordially recommending to each and all of our willing commanders not to attack the Macedonian people....Issued in Vienna, April 26th, 1690. Representatives: defenders of the Macedonian people.... J. Radonic, Prilozi za istoriju Srba u Ungarskoj u XVI, XVII and XVIII veku. Knj. I, Matice srpske, nbr 25 and 26, Novi Sad 1908, p. 52-53.

1704

The French treveller and writer Paul Luca on Macedonia ...and hour after midnight for Kavalla, which is six miles away and once was a large Macedonian city by the sea coast. We should note that almost all the villages in Macedonia are full of Christians and there are few Turks. A. Matkovski and P. Angelakova, Patuvanjata na francuskiot petepisec Pol Luka niz Makedonija od 1704 do 1714-Istorija v/2 (1969). p. 101.

End of 18th C.

Reports by the French Consul in Salonika, Felix de Beaujour, about Macedonia. The pashalik of Salonika includes the whole of Lower Macedonia and covers 700 sq. miles....it must be noted that here I am only speaking about the most populated part of Macedonia; since Upper Macedonia and Epirus are less populated....In Macedonia, as in Poland, the peasants die from hunger, while the masters live in abundance of gold... Felix de Beaujour, Voyage militaire dans l'Empire Othoman, I, Paris 1829, p. 127-128. n.1; p.130, 132.

1821

Macedonians pertecipate in the Romanian uprising ...At that time there was a man they called Sludzar Todor who urged all the foreigners (mostly Macedonians) to rebel against the boyar... Marko K. Cepenkov, Makedonsko narodno tvoreshtvo, Kn. X, Skopje 1972, p.308

1846

...I learnt the Slav alphabet from my father Makedonski, who calls himself so because we are Macedonians, and not Greeks.... Georgija Makedonski, Bogosluzhbena kniga "Opshti minej" - vo crkvata vo s. Radibush, Kriva Palanka, posledna nepagirana stranica.

1851

Bulgarian Comments on the language of J.H. Dzinot ...May the inhabitants of Skopje and those who speak similarly forgive me, but they do not understand our language and cannot speak either... "Bolgarski", Tsarigradski Vestnik, nbr. 55 (6.X.1851, p. 19).

1858

Education in Veles ....Archbishop Antim declared to his peers that all peoples have been enlightened by the Greeks and so it is necessary that Greek should be taught in the schools of Veles, and not Macedonian, since the children alrady know their own language from their home... J. N. Iz Velesa u Makedoniji: Srbski Dnevnik, nbr. 44 (1858) (according to Branislav Vraneshevic, Vojvodinska javnost, p. 320-321).

1865

A note from the priest Demetrius: In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I, priest Demetrius, was born in the village of Ogut, in the Kriva Palanka region. and held the services in my native village, when in the year of our Lord 1848, the champions of the town of Kriva Palanka employed me as a priest against the will of His Grace, the Greek priest Kir Gavrail. Mr. Mikhail Makedonski interceded most in favor of my appointment, because I'm a Macedonian by birth and hold the services in the Slav language. Such was the Fate of my fatherland Macedonia, to suffer from the Greeks, so that they will not give us peace even today, although everyone knows that Macedonia is an older state then their kingdom. We had our own Slav educators, Cyril and Methodius, who left us our Slav alphabet. They were Macedonians born in Salonika, the glorious capital of Macedonia. Our Greek bishop does not admit this, so we do not want him to be our priest, but we want to have our own arch-priest, a Slav, for time everlasting. Amen. Zapis vo knigata Zitie Svetih vo Krivopalaneckata crkva. Pretposledna nepagirana strana.

January 28, 1867

To the Editor of "Makedonija" newspaper: ...The Greeks and the greacomans have met the newspaper with sorrow, since they always tried to hellenize the Macedonians, destroying also the Archibishopric of Ohrid -The Spark of Our Future. Yet, however hard they have tried to stop us from making progress, they could not entirely uproot the feelings of the Macedonians that they are Macedonians. T.I. Kusev, Makedonija, Istanbul, Nbr. I (1/28/1867)

March 25, 1870

...lets us consider those of the present Macedonians who blinded by concealed glow of Hellenic wisdom, accept that they should scorn and revoke their own nationality...the time seems opportune for me to exclaim:Ah, how far away the time really is when Hellas, as everybody calls her today, was subjected to Macedonian authority... Stefan Zahariev, Chitalishte, Istanbul, I/7, 1871, p.214-216.

November 30, 1870

...A teacher named Mr. Shapkarevic...has come to visit me...the same day the books you had sent me...arrived. But as soon as he saw them he said that they should not be taught in the Macedonian schools, since they were in the Bulgarian dialect; and that we should take his books which are in the Macedonian dialect... Pravo of 10/30/1870 (according to B. Koneski, Kon Makedonskata prerodba, p.68).

February 1874

A letter from P.R. Slaveykov to the Bulgarian Exarch: Your Grace, I arrived in Salonika on the evening of the 14th of last month (January 1874). I immediately went to meet all the important local people and some others from the other Macedonian towns. My aim was to gather information as son as possible on what was to be necessary for the succes of the mission with which you had entrusted me. I first met Father Averkij Zografski, and the following day Father Petar Dimitrov as well, the local president of the community. I may inform you, Your Grace, that the wind from here, from Salonika, blows and scatters to all sides. These two clergyman, to my mind, are the leaders of the movement fot the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, although one should not neglect Ohrid and to certain extent Bitola, Veles and Skopje either. The Uniate movement here is not without roots, as they think in Constantinople, especially His Grace, Count Ignatiev. During the time I have been in Macedonia I have ascertained the same we had formerly known and written three years ago. Now, as then or twenty years ago, we are dealing with the Macedonian question. In talks with few Macedonian "patriots" I have understood that this movement, which had been only bare words till a few years ago, is now clear and precise thought - "The Macedonians are not Bulgarians" and they persistenly strive, regardless of the price, to obtain a separate church of their own.

They also have the support in their separatism of smoe high clergyman in Constantinople, especially His Grace Nathaniel Ohridski, Panariot Plovdivski, and Archimandrite Hariton Karpuzov. I have understood this month from reliable sources that there are letters which arrive every day from Constantinople to the Salonika community, and are then sent to the other communities in the provinces. The letters are written in this spirit. One such letter, which the Salonika community sent to the community of Voden, calls upon the inhabitants of Voden to break off all their relations with theExarchate until the Macedonian Church question is settled, because "now is the moment". Mr. Kuzman Shapkarev from Ohrid, who is well known to us, has done a great deal to spread the idea of the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid; he consatnly travels between Kukish and Ohrid and v.v., but at whose expanse, I do not know. Mr. Dimitar Makedonski, "the Macedonian textbook writer", is no less active, reciving salary as a teacher from the Exarchate and from local Lazarists.

Owing to such unreasonable sermons by the Macedonian patriots that the church question has been settled only in favor of the Bulgarians, there is discontent among the people towrds the eparchies of th4 Danube and Adrianople vilayets as well as envy because of the earlier awakening of the Bulgarians. One can especially feel a great resistance against the East Bulgarian variant in literature. A general impression is that the local people think that the Macedonians have been done a great harm with the settlement of the church question in favor of the Danubian and Thracian Bulgarians. This discontent has already grown into distrust of the Exarchate and its higher echalons. and there is an attitude formed that the local Macedonian dialect should be declared a literary language and a Macedonian hiearchy established.

Great attention, Your Grace, should be paid to His Grace Nathaniel, who promised the local people taht as soon as he comes to his eparchy he will take steps for the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid. He seems to be connected with the Macedonian craftsman in Constantinople, among whom he spreads the news about the agreement with the Patriarchate. For their own part they inform their own people in Macedonia about this. It causes great discontent here. Consequently, separatism has its roots in the secret circle of Constantinople. If you press them there, the commotion wil calm down here. Silence the trumpet, there won't be any echo!

The question of Father Nil is a highly delicate one, because he has barricaded himself in Kukush and does not want to return. His ambition seems to have made him to this. He stuffed his head with the thought of becoming the Archbishop of Ohrid ar at least Metropolitan of Salonika. As an Exarchate delegate he spreads the news about the agreement with the Patriarchate as the " most informed person". He decribes the Exarchate to the people as indifferent and passive in saving the Macedonian population from Greek spiritual slavery. Father Nil, who proved to be completely immature, seems to be a hireling of the highest Turkish vilayet authorities. However, his disobidiance to his headquarters began at the moment when he was summoned to return to Constantinople. Instead of obeying orders, he remained waiting there. His disobidiance also comes as a result of the suggestions that have been arriving from Constatinople. He maintains constant relations with Bishop Panaret and Nathaniel especially with the latter, who has suggested he stay in Macedonia until he gets an appointment for Ohrid and arrives in Macedonia. I think that Father Nil should be cast out of Macedonia at any cost and sent to Constatinople, because he is dangerous here. He already acts under the protection of the local Lazarists and the French consul.

Thoughts of the restoration of the Archbishop of Ohrid at the moment are most prevalent here, in Salonika. Here the schemes are being devised and here the hotheads are gathering. These thoughts of course are not based upon mature foundation, especially since Midhat-Pasha has been dismissed from Salonika. But they are gradually spreading to northern Macedonia, although they are not very clear. Some say one thing to the people and others say another. There is danger, if steps are not taken from spme authoritative place, of creating a genral ideal. Then the consequences would be much more serious. The best thing would be if His Grace, Count Ignatiev, were to visit Macedonia, because the population feels a secret hope thet only Russia could help them.

Tomorrow, with Gos's help, I intend to meet some of the elders from the local community. I shall try to convince them of the groundlessnes of their aspirations for a separarte Church when they already have one in the form of the Exarchate. Certainly the most difficult question will be that of the appointment of bishops of Macedonian origin and especially that of the cheirotonia of Father Hariton. I kiss Your Grace's right hand.

Salonika, Fabruary 1874. Your obedient P.R. Slaveykov

Another letter from P.R. Slaveykov: Your Grace,

I sent you a letter via a trustworthy man two days ago, in which I briefly described to you the situation in Salonika and Macedonia in connection with the unreasonable movement for the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid in union with the Roman Catholic Church. After the meeting with some of the local elders I have understood that there were everywhere wide discussions for a broader plan, namely, to create a Uniate Church in Macedonia.

According to reliable sources, only the cheirotonia of Father Hariton is awaited before action will be taken. Until the blessing of the Pope for the proclamation of the Uniate Archbishopric of Ohrid arrives, the bishops with their eparchies will be constituent apart of the Uniate Church with their seat in Adrianople. Then Father Nathaniel will be appointed Archbishop of Ohrid and the following appointments will be made in the eparchies: Father Panaret for the Pelagonia eparchy, Brother Kozma Prechistenski for the Debar eparchy, Father Nil Izvorov for the Salonika eparchy and Father Dorotej for the Skopje eparchy. The other eparchies, for which there are no candidates proposed, will temporarily be governed by the neighboring archpriests. Father Nil will be Bishop of Salonika, Kukush and Voden. Father Hariton, after his ordination, will also become bishop of the Serez and Melnik eparchies. Father Dionisij, as an archimandrite, will temporarily govern the Strumica eparchy.

I have personal impression, Your Grace, that nobody here is asking for a real union with the Roman Catholic Church. It is simply a means of restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid. Catholic circles also feel this and therefore have no great confidence in the people with whom they are negotiating. So I do not think it is too late to actin order to overcome the discontent, which later could be subdued. The Uniate movement is more dangerous in the places where formerly there was a Union because of similar reasons. Kukush comes in the first place, followed by Dojran with sympathy from Strumica, Maleshevo and Voden. The Salonika, Serez, Melnik and Drama villages lag behind them. There is not any powerful stirring of the Uniate propaganda indeed, but where there is smoke there must be fire. The appointment of Bishop Nil is expected for the fire to blaze forth. The Poljanin eparchy will immediately turn into a Union and the Strumica and Voden eparchies will join in, as well as a huge number of villages in Salonika, Drama, Serres and other eparchies. The other Macedonian eparchies will certainly be shattered, too, first the Veles eparchy and then the Skopje one. The Veles eparchy is also dissatisfied with its bishop, Damaskin, while at the same time the citizens of Veles, aroused by a craving for power, believe that they should govern Macedonia in religious matters.

The causes of such a situation in the whole of Macedonia are very obvious. The Macedonian eparchies and towns I have already mentioned are extremely embittered by the serious position of the Church and the people in which they find themselves. The spreading of the idea of restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid upon an Uniate basis is also helped by the French and Austrian consuls, who promise full protection before the Turkish authorities and persecution of the Constantinople Patriarchate. The Greeks themselves indirectly help the spreading of the Union in Macedonia, expecting the Exarchate to become weak because of the Union and thus finding allies in the liquidation of the Catholic propaganda in Macedonia. I have concluded this from the talks I had with the Greek consul in Salonika. He was not in the least worried at the danger of the spread of the Union in Macedonia. On the contrary, Greece is seeking support for its economic and national activity in Macedonia. According to the opinion of the Greek consul, the part of the people who will not accept the Union, disillusioned with the Exarchate, will remain under the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate.

In the talks I had it was not by chance that the agents and adherents of the Union mentioned that the "Macedonian question" could only be settled through the Union. In order to make full use of the discontent and bitterness of the people against the Exarchate, they strengthen their accusation against the Exarchate. They speak about the Macedonian question upon a religious basis, but at the same time stir up the old separatist trends among the Macedonians - to create a new ethnic region through the Union - in the spirit of Midhat-Pasha's schemes. As the Roman Catholic agents worked out a cultural and national program for the Union in 1860 for the liberation of the Bulgarian people from the Patriarchate, they now also appear with a specific program for the spiritual and national liberation of the Macedonian eparchies through the Union. The Macedonian activists already widely use the expression the Macedonian movement in their language of communication, by which one should understand independent national and church liberation. I must emphasize strongly, Your Excellency, that this is a factor of an important political character - separatism is being spread starting from a religious basis towards a broader national one.

After the talks I had with Father Petar Dimov I felt that he has slowly retired from being drawn into the Union. Today he has officially renounced the Union and sent a letter to You expressing his loyalty to the Exarchate. I also talked to Father Averkij. He told me that he would also withdraw from the movement if appointments for the Exarchate bishops were issued by the autumn. My attitude towards these two Church dignitaries was moderate and friendly, because any repressive measures could stir up spirits.

.... Your spiritual child P.R. Slaveykov S. Dimevski, Dve pisma na P. R. Slaveykov za makedonizmot. - Razgledi XIV, 5(1972), p.561-566

April 6, 1878

in Salonika To the Right Honorable Austen Henry Layard "...Russian agents are busy in the country, and even here, trying to get petitions that the whole of Macedonia be included in Bulgaria... They tell the people: If you remain out, your state (and you see what it is) will be worse then it was before, while if you attach yourselves to us and our cause, you will get all the benefits accruing to a large and powerful Kingdom, under Russian protection... I remain... Edward B. Barker British Museum, London, Dmss Layard Papers, Vol. LXXXIX Addd. 39.019, 186-187.

1878

From the record of the Imperial Russian secret archives on the arrangement and government of the Balkan regions. ...Count Shuvalev demands that all the necessary measures for pacification of Macedonia be undertaken. For its purpose, it would be desirable to send competent agents there, and to proclaim to the Macedonians on behalf of the Governor, the Emperor, that His Highness is concerned about their fate, as much as for the other Slavs, and they will be granted the same freedom as that of the Bulgarians, now already liberated.... Dokumenti iz sekretnite arhivi na Ruskoto pravitelstvo. Sofia 1893, p.11-12.

1878

The rules of the Macedonian Rebel Commitee of the Kresna Uprising It is well known to all of us that this ill-fated country of ours, Macedonia, owing to the egoistic aims of the Great Powers, was gain left to Turkey after the Congress of Berlin. As a result of that, in certain regions of our fatherland many scenes full full of blood, known to all of us, took place....We rebelled as advocates of freedom. With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan "Freedom or Death!" The aim of the Uprising in Macedonia 1.The uprising in Macedonia...should be extended all over Macedonia. 2. Those people from Macedonia who feel themselves to be Macedonians and love the freedom of their fatherland are taking part in the uprising. From the private archives of Cyril, Patriarch of Bulgaria, Arch. of Act 2341, AE 50, pp. 30-61. The Residence of the monastery of Dragolevci, Sofia, P.R. Bulgaria.

June 8, 1879

Georgi Pulevski to Despot Badzovic: ...The Bulgarians here are playing tricks with us and are turning the water to their mill alongside divine Nathaniel, who is a Macedonian, but rather inclined towards the Bulgarians... Arhiv Srbije (Beograd) Fond: Ministarstvo prosvete, P. nbr. 981/8.VI.1879; Razgledi XIV/10 (1972), p. 1132.

March 23, 1881

Manifesto of the Provisional Government of Macedonia: ...our dear Macedonia, our dear homeland is calling upon you: you who are my faithful children, you who are descendants of Aristotle and Alexandar the Great, you in whose veins Macedonian blood flows, do not let me die, but help me!... President Vasil Chomo, Secretary Nikola Trajkov in Kjustendil Centralnii Gosudartsvenii Arhiv Okjabarskii revoljucii i socialtieskoga stroitelstva SSSR, Moskva - Fond Gr.Ignatieva No.730 - opis No. 1, ed.hr.79; Lj. lape, Odbrani tekstovi za istorijata na makedonskio narod, II del, Skopje 1976, p.256-258.

May 9, 1888

Salonika. Temko Popov to Despot Badzovic ...I shall try to write to you, as far as possible, in our language, replacing the words I don't know with Bulgarian ones. What else can I do, Despot? While our language could one dictate to the other Slav languages, it has now remained the poorest of all, and like a begger, it serves either Bulgarian or Serbian....Let us no lie to ourselves, Despot, tha national spirit in Macedonia has reached such a stage today that even if Jesus Christ had come to the Earth, he would not have been able to persuade the Macedonian that he was a Bulgarian or a Serb, excepting those Macedonians in whom Bulgarian propaganda has already taken root. In order to convince yourself of this, you must have Bulgarianism in view. Bulgarian propaganda has now been working for 20 years in Macedonia, in the blindest of times - when Hellenism, coming from and entirely alien nation, started to take root in the Macedonian heart; but the Macedonians, seeing a ray of Slavism, rejected everything as if eyeless, without paying attention to the difference. It was sufficient for them to have broken with Hellenism. But what is to be done now i.e. after twenty years of Bulgarian striving, indoctrination and unsparing pecuniary sacrifaces? My dear Despot, everybody does what is natural, but unexpected for the Bulgarians, that is, now every Macedonian admits he is not a Bulgarian and declares loudly his nation, even though he may stilluse Bulgarian means, not having his own, of course. ... Your friend T. Popov Narodna Biblioteka, Belgrade - fond - Jovan Hadzi Vasiljevic II 413/III May 9 1988.

1890

A request by the citizens of Ohrid for the restoration of the Archbishopric of Ohrid To His Holiness, the Great Patriarch, Constantinople, We, loyal subjects to His Majesty, the Emperor Sultan Abdul Hamid II, for a long time did not have freedom for our Church, and since 1872 have become an even more misled flock, for we came under the Bulgarian Exarchate, deceived by Bulgarian propaganda. Thus we became schismatics, as well. ...Apart from the fact that Bulgarians deceived and beguiled us, they also reject our language, change our holy customs and alter our character, too. We cannot tolerate it any more and we do not want our children to curse us and the graves of our forefathers... (signatures of 120 citizens of Ohrid) DA DSIP - Beograd - PPO, F.7, d.6, p.br. 962, 1890.

June 22, 1891

Skopje Theodosius, Metropolitan of Skopje, to Archimandrite Dionysius in Sofia. ...our Holy Exarchate headed by His Holiness Exarch Joseph I does everything possible to persuade the wretched Macedonian people that it has good intentions, that it cares for their present and future and that it wants to draw them out of the darkness of national unawareness and create holy Bulgarians of them. But I would not have to persuade you too long, my dearest brother in Christ, that our Holy Exarchate, with its religious and educational activity here, in Macedonia, in fact carries out a most miserable task, it deprives a people of its name and replaces it with another, it deprives them of their mother tongue and replaces it with another, alien one, in order to allow its government and its Bulgarian masters to extend their commerce to foreign territories, too. And what else would you call this, my dear brother, other then a new slavery, even more terrible then the Turkish one? The Turks take the property and the lives of the people, but do not encroach upon their spirit. They destroy the body but respect the soul. And our Holy Exarchate kills the latter, the perpetual... I have written this to you, so that you would not be amazed by my previous letter in which I stated my opinion that we clergyman, Macedonians in origin, should unite and urge our people to awaken, throw off foreign authority, throw off even the Patriarchate and the Exarchate, and spiritually unified under the wing of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, their only true Mother Church. Is it not high time to put an end to the national movements of a single people among which some recognize the Patriarchate, some the Exarchate and some even bow to Mohammed? Is it not high time to put an end to hatred between blood brothers? And how could this be achieved if not by the way of our national Church , by way of the Archbishopric of Ohrid? I shall be sincere, my dear brother in Christ, and shall openly declare to you: we, the Macedonians, to not suffer as much by the Turks, long live our Padishah, as by the Greeks, the Bulgarians and the Serbs, who have set upon us like vultures upon a carcass in this tortured land and want to split it up. ("And they parted Your garments, Jesus")..... ...Theodosius of Skopje Centralen D'rzhaven istoricheski archiv (Sofia) 176, op. 1. arh.ed. 595, l.5-42 - Razgledi, X/8 (1968), p.996-1000.

December 4, 1891

Theodosius, Metropolitan of Skopje, to Pope Leo XIII I, the undersigned Metropolitan of Skopje, Theodosius, by God's Mercy head of Skopje eparchy, am submitting this request both in my name and in the name of of the whole Orthodox flock of Macedonia, in which we are begging His Holiness to accept us under the wing of the Roman Catholic Church...Our desire springs from the historical right of the Orthodox Macedonian people to be freed from the jurisdiction of foreign Churches - the Bulgarian Exarchate and the Constantinople Patriarchate - ....The borders of the Archbishopric should conform to the present borders of Macedonia... Archivio della S. Congregazione de Propaganda Fide - Roma: Indice della Potenza - Marzo 1892-93, Somm.XV, f.132-141.

August 20, 1892

Serbian Consul in Bitola, Dimitrije Bodi, to Minister of Foreign Affairs, Vladan Djordjevic, in Belgrade. I have to inform you, dear Sir, that some intellectualist movement among the local teachers has recently appeared in the town of Kostur, which insists upon rejection of Greek and Bulgarian propaganda, and the introduction of the Macedonian dialect as the language of teaching in the schools. This initiative has in fact been started....If you are interested in these matters, Sir, please answer me with a ciphered telegram. DA - DSIP. P odd.I red 278 (1892).

August 26, 1892

Serbian Consul in Bitola, Dimitrije Bodi, to Minister of Foreign Affairs, Vladan Djordjevic, in Belgrade. ....I have heard from my own people that the local community at its meeting of 22nd Auguts this year, decided that the teaching in the new 1892/1893 school year should be done in the Macedonian dialect. The town teachers were given the task of working a program for the language teaching and a provisional grammar of the Macedonian dialect.... DA - DSIP. P odd.I red 278 (1892).

1890

Karl Hron: "The Nationality of the Macedonian Slavs": ...From my own studies of the Serbo-Bulgarian dispute I came to the conviction that the Macedonians are an individual nation, both by their history and their language; thus, they are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians... Karl Hron, Das Volksthum der Slaven Makedoniens, Wien 1890, S. 4-5, 15-17, 20, 22,26

1896

Paul Argyriades (A French socialist born in Macedonia): ...Present day Macedonia is one of the European provinces of the Turkish Empire. It borders on the south with Epirus, Thessaly and the Mediterranean, on the east with Thrace and the Mediterranean, on the north with Mount Hemus, Bulgaria and Serbia and with Albania on the west....Macedonia, as the homeland of the two greatest personalities of the Ancient World - Aristotle and Alexander the Great, who conquered the world. should it anew conquer its independence and its autonomy?...And if an autonomous Macedonian administration were to be introduced in this land in ten years only, it would be the earthly paradise of the world...The small states - the Greek, Bulgaria and Serbian ones -argue for the acquisition of Macedonia, using all kinds of proofs - chauvinist and historical - invented in support of their interests, while no one seems to realize that if the historical truth were to be respected, Macedonia should rather have the right to possess all those countries, which would like to devour it, since once it governed and ruled them itself....The Macedonians do not want the kind of caresses which may strangle them. They want to remain Macedonians without any other epithet, guarding for themselves their beautiful Macedonia... Almanach de la Question Sociale. Illustre'. (Paris), Pour 1896, pp. 240-244.

1897

From "Maleshevski Balkan" journal: At Least Do Not Hinder Us There is hardly any harsher situation then that of the Macedonian cause. Aroused by sympathy, feelings and tradition to maintain always the closest links with its direct neighbors, the Bulgarians, Serbs, and others, today it surprises us most mercilessly and makes us repent. Nobody, undoubtedly nobody, would deny the justification of our hopes in the Bulgarians and the Serbs, as people who stand closest to us, as people with the same past as ours, etc. ... From "Maleshevski Balkan", Sofia, I, 16, 1 (1897).

1897

William Gladstone ...Next to the Ottoman Govt. nothing can be more deplorable and blameworthy then jealousies between Greek and Slav, and plans by the States already existing for appropriating other territory. Why not Macedonia for Macedonians, as well as Bulgaria for Bulgarians and Servia for Servians. And if they are small and weak, let them bind themselves together for defence, so that they may not be devoured by others, either great and small, which would probably be the effect of their quarreling among themselves. The Times (London), 6th January 1897, p.12

1898

Petar Mandzukov to Kostadin Kirkov ...Perhaps our slavery would not have been so difficult if various kinds of propaganda had not interfered in our affairs, which under the name of "brothers" and "benefactors" divide brothers from brothers and make the Turks commit the worst of crimes. Those "brothers" of ours do everything possible to prevent the unity of our freedom-loving forces. And what has been the result of such propaganda? Even the true sons of our country, those whoa re really not afraid to sacrifice their lives at the altar of our Fatherland, often wrongly think that the liberation of Macedonia could not be conceived without the interference of this or that state. They go over to the side of this or that people and forget their own people. Instead of uniting their forces in favor of their own people and striving in unison to liberate it from bondage, they cannot agree whom they should serve. We know, Kostadin, that our fatherland differs by its population from one Bulgaria, Greece or Serbia, which are homogenous countries. There are various nationalities and religions in our country. There are Macedonians, Greeks, Wallachians, Turks, Jews, Albanians, even a few Armenians. and let us not forget the Gypsies.... CDIA (Sofia), f.70, on., AE70-74; - Razgledi, X/7 (1968), p.847-851

1900

A. Brutus (A. Drandar): Concerning a movement in Macedonia A considerable section of the European press does not cease to inform us of the immense sufferings undergone by the Christian population of Macedonia....It was the sad fate of that population that made us publish this booklet, based upon our experience and personal observations I had acquired impartially, as a foreigner, during my stay in Macedonia of several years...If one takes a retrospective view of the history of Macedonia to the most ancient of times, one remains amazed by the great role this small country, this classical country par excellance, played in the world....The Macedonian, born in a land to which nature was so favorable, has always longed for heroic feats and aspired to great deeds...Even the glorious cradle of Ancient Hellenism is subjected to the Macedonian kings...We find Macedonians on the Byzantine throne at the time when this empire was at its peak. Following the course of history, we see how the star of Macedonia shone with the same intensity. It plays the chief role in the revival of the Slav people. Thus, the two brothers exalted to apostles, Cyril and Methodius, objects of general admiration for the Slav world, are Macedonians, and owing to the very existence of these two apostles, this small land becomes the cradle of the Slav people to whom it gives its religion and art...The inhabitants of Macedonia do not want to be annexed either to Bulgaria or Serbia, or Greece; they want, they want so strongly, to live a human life in an autonomous country. Their slogan is: Macedonia to the Macedonians. A. Brutus, A Propos d'un Mouvement en Macedonie, Bruxelles 1900, pp.12-13, 15, 56.

1901

A.V. Amfiteatrov: The Land of Discord Each Slav should and is obliged to feel sympathy for Macedonian freedom. But Macedonian freedom cannot be achieved with their own, Macedonian means. The land is too small and weak to fight against the power of Constantinople, which only has to give a sign and tens of thousands of soldiers will attack the Rumalian vilayets and strangle them like mice before Europe could compose itself, even before Europe could know it. Hence, Macedonia cannot be freed with its own forces. Only an evil enemy, an unconscious enemy of Slavism could desire an armed movement in Macedonia now when the land is totally unprepared for an uprising, in circumstances of tied hands of the whole Europe, of Serbo-Bulgarian clashes, of huge preparations of the Turks against the slightest possibilities of movement. Or a real fool. These were the exact words of one of the high-ranking persons deciding the fate of Balkan Slavism in a discussion with me concerning the Macedonian committees. Nobody in Europe, none of the Great Powers can actively intercede in favor of the Macedonians against the Turks at the present moment - except, perhaps, Austria. Bu the very name of Austria causes panic in the Macedonian Slav element, who will allow Austria to reign in Macedonia? For it would be the destruction of all ideas of pan-Slavism, it would be the end of the Eastern Question, it would be the decisive and last victory of the German world over the Slav world. Then, we the Russians, would only be humbly left to falling out of step with that state with the projected historical tasks, with the repudiation of racial ideals - a state similar to modern Italy or Spain, only in greater proportions. The young Slav states, adjacent to Macedonia, are too young and too poor to go into struggle for it. At the same time, these states are disintegrating both from the internal situation and external family hostilities. The Bulgarians and the Serbians cannot stand each other; each consider Macedonia as their lawful property. Neither the Bulgarians nor the Serbs have even the slightest desire to create Macedonia for Macedonia. Enthusiast for an autonomous Macedonia can only be found among the Macedonian natives. Neither the Serb nor the Bulgarian wants the autonomy of Macedonia. As far as the question of whether Macedonia should become Bulgarian or Serbian is concerned, every Bulgarian would tell you with utter sincerity: -It would be better that the Turks ruled there eternally then to give the Serbs a chance to spread towards the Aegean Sea. And the Serb would say: - It would be better that the Turks did there whatever they allow your damned brothers to achieve their Greater Bulgaria from one sea to the other! The question of nationality has not been settled in Macedonia and it is hard to assume that it will ever be settled in a satisfactory manner. If we are to believe Gopcevic and Jasterbov there are almost no Bulgarians - all of the are Serbs. If we are to believe Ofejkov and Miljukov, there are no Serbs, all of them are Bulgarians. It is more probable that where we are dealing with a perfectly branch of Slavs, transitional between the Bulgarians and the Serbs. But that branch taken alone is insufficiently significant to win its freedom and turn itself into a state unit. Consequently, no matter how the question of its nationality is resolved, it is deprived of the possibility to exist, so to say; it is cursed in itself to serve as political material directly for its neighbors, and deviously and indirectly for Europe, which governs its naighbours. The basic reason for the failures of the Macedonian revolutionary organization lies in the fact that it is fed by means that have historically proved their ineffectiveness against state order of a European kind to overthrow the system and authority that have nothing in common with European order; since with the tactics, which have overthrown many European government, it attempts to erase military slavery, which has continued in Macedonia and Old Serbia for five centuries now; since the arms, victorious in the civil war, are also used in external war, because the Turk is not a fellow-citizen and compatriot of the Slavs, but he was, is and will be their external enemy... - They consider me a Bulgarophile, I.A. Zinovjev told me. But it isn't so at all. I behave in perfectly equal manner to all Slavs, and, if a person is decent and likable, it is all the same to me whether he is a Bulgarian, a Serb or a Macedonian. But I am a Russian representative and I have been sent here to protect, first of all, Russian interests. Permanent patronage over the Balkan Slavs is inseparably linked with Russian interests. We are their natural patrons. But this patronage does not mean Russia's following of Slav leaders; patronage is not characterless yielding. However, as far as the Macedonian question is concerned, the Bulgarians, as our most spoilt children in the whole of the Slav world, would like precisely to lead Russia with them where they have blindly started closing their eyes, demanding that the patronage be turned into yielding. The activities of the Macedonian committees, long under the patronage (with) our tolerance of the Bulgarian government, had the following direct calculation: - We shall force the Turks to abandon their reserved behavior they have taken up and borne with difficulty - wit a series of small explosions, murders and blackmails we shall arose the fanatic excitement of the Moslems, the Sultan will be forced to give in to the demands of his subjects of the same faith, and Turkish atrocities will start in Macedonia, blood will be shed, villages will be burnt. For the attainment of the sublime goal it is of no consequence whether fifty or fifty thousand people will be killed - the main thing is: slaughter must be caused, which will in turn cause the necessity of European intervention, and since the protection of the Slavs is the perennial deed of Russia and it will never leave the Macedonian question to Austria - consequently, volens-nolens, Russia shall have to send again hundred of thousands of soldiers to the Balkan Peninsula and achieve the freedom of Macedonia with its bayonets, i.e. it should put the land into the mouth of the Bulgarians. For they don't recognize any other nationality in Macedonia except the Bulgarian one. Consequently, the future freedom of Macedonia for them is either the fulfillment of the Treaty of San Stefano and unification of Macedonia with the Bulgarian Principality, or a creation of a new autonomous Bulgarian body, which will sooner or later be merged with the former into an 'integral Bulgaria'.... Cvetan Stanoevski, Kako ja vidoa Makedonija, Skopje 1978, pp.189-190,193-194.

1902

Appeal of the "National Macedonian-Albanian League" Brother Macedonians! Brother Albanians! ...There is no need that the Bulgarians, the Greeks or others amend our homeland... Executive Committee British Museum (British Library), London, 1902

1902

Nikola Karev to Goce Delchev ...Let us not expect freedom either from the Greeks or the Bulgarians; it is we, the Macedonians, who should fight for our Macedonia ourselves... Neobjaveno pismo, Nova Makedonija, (Skopje), XXIV, nbr.7744 (May 5 1968), p.8

1903

Victor Berard on the Macedonians. The ambition for a small homeland, the egotism of a small nation, is not the ultimate ideal of the Macedonians. To replace Turkish subjugation with Greek, Serbian or Bulgarian dependence does not seem to them to represent some great gain...Until recently France did not know the Macedonians. They were Thracian, Peons, Sclavins for us, a wild and almost a mythical people, that lived somewhere at the bottom of some unknown land for us. We either did not know them or despised them, since we heard of them from the malicious notes of the ancient and modern Greeks... La Revue de Paris, Juin 1903.

1904

A Macedonian Theory Was it so long before the liberation of the Bulgarians that throughout Bulgaria, in answer to the question as to what they were (by nationality), the Bulgarians said they were "Christians" or raya (non-Moslem Turkish subjects)?And even now it is not so rare on occasion to hear a Bulgarian answering in court as to the question of his nationality that he is a "Christian". The notion of nationality has still not become a new accomplishment of his mind. During the Turkish period, the Bulgarian peasant referred to the Bulgarians in the towns as "Greeks" and city lother were "Greek dress" for him. And since the Greeks designated that peasant as a "fat-headed Bulgar", his brother from the town loved to be called a "Hellene", so that he should not be scorned for his real national name. It is not exactly the same case with what Mr. Misirkov elaborates concerning the name of the Macedonian Slav? The name "Bulgar" fell even in Bulgaria to such position which earned only the contempt of the others. This name appeared so empty even in the mouth of the Bulgarians themselves that it became a synonym for "Christian"; the later designated the whole ethnic contents of Bulgarian individual and social consciousness. When our peasant used to say "we are Bulgars", he meant "we are Christians", i.e. Orthodox. The Russian Tsar was a "Bulgarian Tsar" for him not by nationality, but by Orthodox Christianity. A. Teodorov-Balan, Edna makedonska teorija - Periodichesko spisanie (Sofia), LXV (1904), p.818

1907-1908

The Macedonian Villages ...I asked him what language they spoke, and my Greek interpreter carelessly rendered the answer Bulgare. The man himself had said Makedonski. I drew attention to this word and the witness explained that he did not consider the rural dialect used in Macedonia the same as Bulgarian, and refused to call it by that name. It was Macedonian, a word to which he gave the Slav form of Makedonski, but which I was to hear farther north in the Greek form of Makedonike. And so the "Bulgarophone" villagers are no longer willing to admit that they speak Bulgarian. They have coined a new term of their own accord, and henceforth their dialect, until they have got rid of it, is to be known as "Macedonian". My Athenian friends were delighted when I told them of this on my return. It should give even greater pleasure to those Bulgarian agents who are so anxious to see the Macedonians thought they are Macedonians. Allen Upward, The East End of Europe, London 1908, pp. 204-205

June 25, 1910

Archimandrite Neophyte in Skopje to Bulgarian Exarch Joseph in Constantinople: Starting from some time ago, as I have already informed You several times, matters in the eparchy, and especially here have not developed as they should. The Eparchy Council, which, as You know, consists of the town's elders, has decided to send You a letter in which it strongly condemns the candidature of the former Metropolitan of Skopje, Theodosius, and among other things, upon my suggestion writes the following in the protest: "Outraged, we read in the newspapers that a group of villains wishes at any cost to urge the population - the voters of the Skopje Eparchy - to bring back that typical intransigent, Theodosious, as the Metropolitan of the Skopje Eparchy. This is the same Theodosius who 17 or 18 years ago wanted to separate the Skopje Eparchy from the Exarchate and proclaim himself an independent Metropolitan. For this purpose, he then made a special seal on which he deleted the words "Bulgarian Exarchate", so sacred to us, and printed his own baptismal certificates, marriage certificates and other documents; he did not fulfill the circular letters and the orders of the Exarchate, etc. Yet, since at that time there were not such a strong anti-Bulgarian movement among the local Bulgarians, it was possible for the Exarchate to remove this dangerous schismatic in time and thereby preserve the unity of the Bulgarian Church in Turkey. Now this same schismatic, contrary to Exarchist interests, wishes to restore his eparchy and continue his dishonest business of disuniting our Bulgarian people. We protest most strongly against his nomination as Metropolitan of Skopje, because he insults the Bulgarian feeling among the population". Unfortunately, Your Grace, if the Eparchy Council has such people with common sense, this is not the case with some craftsman's circles, which have come under the influence of Mr. Petar Pop Arsov, a teacher, who has taken the idea into his head that he is a leader of the people. He constantly speaks against the Exarchate and its leadership, including myself, and urges the craftsman to support Metropolitan Theodosios' candidature, since he once suffered for defending the interests of the Macedonians. It would not be superfluous if I informed You about another problem, which, I presume, will represent a kind of plot in this whole election propaganda. I have understood from some members of the Council that Krste Petkov, who at one time started "Misirkovism", had requested from certain relative of his, living here in Skopje, that he put him in touch with this teacher, Petar Pop Arsov, in connection with collecting songs about Krale Marko in the Skopje district, and Mr. Pop Arsov was so kind as to agree immediately. I am writing this to you, Your Grace, a justified suspicion that schismatic forces are being brought to life here. The said Mr. Krste Misirkov expressed in a letter to his relative has desire to return to Macedonia, more precisely, to come to Skopje as soon as Macedonia was liberated. The man wished to be a professor at the Skopje university (?!). If this is true, and there are no reasons for lying to me, then You may conclude Yourself what danger threatens the Bulgarian idea in these historic times. Just imagine if the "Misirkovism" of Mr. Krste, the "separatism' of His Grace Theodosius and the "autonomism" of Mr. Petar Pop Arsov joined together! I am of the opinion, Your Grace, upon the basis of the protest by the Eparchy Council (which was, after all, published in the press) that the candidature of His Grace Theodosius should be withdrawn, by which a danger of as yet unseen proportions for the Bulgarian cause in Macedonia would be evaded. I remain Your Grace's younger brother in Jesus Christ and I pray for You. S. Dimevski, Diskusija - K.P. Misirkov i nacionalno-kulturniot razvoj na makedonskiot narod do Osloboduvanjeto - Zbornik Misirkov. Simpozium. Skopje, Institut za makedonski jazik, 1975, pp.338-339.

1905

Sveta Simic, representative of the Kingdom of Serbia in Bulgaria, to Jovan Jovanovich-Pizon, head of the consular department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Belgrade. D. Gruev again visited me last Saturday. D. Hristov also chanced to be in my house, so we spent more then 3 hours in discussion. The Macedonians have been afraid that the Bulgarians and we agreed to divide them, and accordingly they are the only ones left to frown at the Imperial Alliance. They suspect it hides something else. They continually make agreements and preparations but undertake nothing more serious. They constantly send smaller bands and ammunition into their country. All their activity is reduced to this only in present. They would like to make an agreement with us, but such as to sacrifice nothing of what they call their autonomy. They have come to see more and more that there are obstacles before them which they cannot fight successfully, and under the influence of which they continually lose their importance as an authoritative factor in the development of the Maced(onian) question. This is what hurts them immensely. They are divided among themselves, just as before. The differences of their views also intensify their personal hatred, which makes some of them avoid the others, plotting among themselves....Unfavorable rumors reach us from Macedonia, too. The people, craving for freedom, would like to reject their yoke and uncertainty as soon as possible, so that they would be ready for some decisive steps as well, but their distrust both of their leaders and Bulgaria prevent them. Under the influence of the news about the Imperial Alliance a mood has been created in which they would like to be freed from their yoke at any cost, even if they were compelled to come under Bulgaria and Serbia. And if these two did not help them, they would gladly accept Austrian occupation, as well... Arhiv SFR Jugoslavije (Belgrade) - Fond Jovan Jovanovic-Pizon, 80 (1905).

1906

To my brother in arms, Dushan, voyvoda from the village of Bistrica Brother, you should know that I have received your letter and understood all that you wrote me. We have put the people in great trouble, it is true, but who is to blame for this? You say we are to blame, we say you are to blame. As far as I know, ten years have passed (and) has never been over those years any bloodshed between ourselves or division into Serbomans or Bulgarophils. We have been Macedonian fighters and we will fight to the end for the Macedonian people, but we do not fight for Bulgaria or Serbia, nor Greece; they are free and live freely and drink in shaded inns; they have the right to drink so since they shed their blood earlier. We, who come from this Macedonian land should work for Macedonia, because our Macedonian brothers are murdered on the roads and our Macedonian sisters are disgraced by the bloody Turk, by the fat Turk. We are not against any nationality of either Bulgaria, Serbia, or Greece; we should recognize the merit of those who would help us. If there had been any Serbian, Bulgarian or Greek land here, they should not have waited for us to die in the mountains but should have liberated Macedonia with their armies; only then they could have demanded Serbia, Bulgarian or Greek land here... Blazhe Krusheski DA SSID - Fond Izvrshnog odbora Srpske narodne organizacije F-6 (1906)

1912

A.V. Amfiteatrov: Macedonia ...Following the Russian war, Turkey of the old regime finally turned into a "sick man", and the heirs of the executors of the expected will gathered around his death-bed. The future destiny of Macedonia came to depend not as much on the will of Turkey itself as on the sympathies of the European guardians. In the 19th century Europe learned through Germany, Italy and Greece to consider the right to national self-determination a little. Thus, all the states and countries bordering on Macedonia have started intensive propaganda in favor of their nationalities, as it were a race or along jump for an award. They have taken care, as much as they have means and power, to persuade Europe by truth and lies, that allegedly the national self-determination of the Macedonian inclines in their favor, and not in favor of the neighboring nation. In this respect the Bulgarians proved more swift the their rivals. In order to make Macedonia Bulgarian, they had to Bulgarize the Macedonians. Thus, following the Bulgaro-Serbian War of 1885, the greatest powers and considerable sacrifices of the Bulgarian state apparatus were given to the Bulgarization of the Macedonian Slavs. Bulgarian agents were the priests and the teachers; the comitajis and band-members became the secret government of the country and, allegedly, its soul. In the beginning the propaganda was exceedingly successful. Miljukov, who visited Macedonia towards the end of the nineties, looked at it too much through Bulgarian glasses and - so to say - proclaimed all the Macedonians to be full-blooded Bulgarians. But his mistake can be considered as made with clear conscience. He found Macedonia so profoundly and brilliantly Bulgarized that it is no wonder that he took the clothes for the body - the culture for the nationality. Those who have read The Land of Discord know my view about the Macedonians. They are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians, but a primordial Slav people with simple basic language which is to a great degree able to be subject to any form offered by another, more influential and more developed Slav culture. There are Macedonian Bulgarians where the Bulgarian school and Church are firmly established, and Serbs where literacy is in the hands of the Serbs. They could have been turned with the same ease, under the influence of education, religion and commerce, into Little Russians, Great Russians or Poles. Their language is melted metal which can easily be molded into any kindred form. But - a related one. So, it is national kinship which is the main reason for making Macedonia a center of confrontation between the Slavs and for destroying the Greek influence in it. Statistics about Macedonia are confusing, tendentious and fantastic. In spite of that, even according to Greek sources, it is easy to see the Hellenes represent a minority in the Macedonian vilayets. As a result of this and aiming to create a majority, the Greeks had to resort to sufficiently unscrupulous falsifications, counting all Slav Patriarchists as Greeks. These are Slavs who have not acknowledged the Exarchate but remained faithful to the Constatinople Patriarchate, although they speak only Slavic. In this way the Greeks have come to understand one's nationality in the same manner as the Turks - religion equals nationality. A patriarchist - means a Greek... C. Stanoevski, Kako ja vidoa Makedonija, pp.210-211.

1912

Bulgarian statesman Dimitar Rizov on his nationality ....In the golden months of the successful beginning of the war against the Turks, he spoke to me as a convinced Yugoslav (South Slav). He explained to me, I being a Croat, the real situation of matters in Macedonia and said that it was shame that the first free Slav state had not been founded in Macedonia, which would equally attract to union the Bulgarians and the Serbs, and would be a bond and not a cause of discord between the Serbs and the Bulgarians...He told me that the Macedonians, to tell the objective truth, were neither Bulgarians nor Serbs, but Macedonian Slavs who spoke in their own individual Macedonian language or dialect. ..."Our people", he said, "were only 'Macedonian Christians,' and then, when Greek propaganda developed they become 'Macedonian Christian Slavs'. It was all the same to us which Christian country would help us to free ourselves from the Turks. I was born in Bitola. There were several grammar-schools in Bitola: Turkish, Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian. It was all the same to us, the Slavs, which Slav grammar-school we attended. For example, alongside many of my friends who later became Bulgarians, I attended the Serbian grammar-school. It is true that the teachers in the grammar-school told we were Serbs, just as those in the Bulgarian grammar-school were told that we were Bulgarians, but we kept our own counsel, and that was what our parents told us at home: it does not matter, let them talk, but we are Macedonian Christian Slavs..." Ivan Meshtrovic, famous Croatian sculptor, Uspomene na politichke ljude i dogagjaje. Zagreb 1969, pp. 25-26, 39.

March 1, 1913

Memorandum on the Independence of Macedonia submitted by the Macedonian colony in St. Petersburg to the Conference of the representatives of the Great Powers in London. ...it is more suitable for all the neighbors of Macedonia that this country remain undivided, since by any division, sections of our living compatriots will remain under foreign authority and will perish. The Macedonians have won their right to self-determination over their whole recent history, as well...The Serbs and the Bulgarians deliberately say nothing about these huge Macedonian victories and permit nobody to write about them...As a result of all this, the Macedonian Colony in St.Petersburg, fulfilling its sacred duty towards its fatherland and conscientiously applying the slogan "Macedonia to the Macedonians", protests and cannot remain indifferent when the allied Balkan states (Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece) - our brothers in blood and faith - aim to dismember our fatherland....Here is what is needed for the Macedonian people; 1. Macedonia should remain a single, indivisible and independent Balkan state with it geographic, ethnographic, historical, economic and political borders. 2. A Macedonian national assembly should be established on the basis of general elections in Salonika in the soonest possible time, which would work out in detail the internal structure of the state and determine its relations with the neighboring states. Makedonskii Golos, St. Petersburg 1913-1914

1913

Nace Dimov Chupovski: A Political Survey of Macedonia and the Macedonians. In examining the Macedonian question from the political point of view, I shall not deal with the old times....Condemned at first to Roman rule, and then to Byzantine oppression, and finally to Turkish slavery, the terrible name of Macedonian found shelter from generation to generation in Macedonian hearts only...In the same towns and villages, the priests that receive salary from the Bulgarian Exarchate call themselves Bulgarians, those that receive salary from the Serbian Metropolitan office call themselves Serbians...Besides, the Macedonians were always allies and participants both in the liberation of the Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians....From all that has been previously mentioned, I dare say that the Macedonians have a one hundred percent right to autonomy and not to being subjected to dismembering among the Greeks, the Serbs and Bulgarians. Disregarding this fact, the Serbian, Greek and Bulgarian governments, aiming to extend their frontiers into Macedonians territory, spare no means and exterminate the Macedonians who refuse to call themselves Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians...The Macedonian people will not reconcile themselves either with those who aspire to deprive them of their language, customs and the natural desire to be free masters of their own house. Hence, only if the Serbs, Greeks and Bulgarians renounce their aspirations will Macedonia live in a friendly way .... N.D. Dimov, Istoricheskii ocherk Makedonii i makedonskih slavjan - Peterburg, 1913

June 7, 1913

To the Governments and the Public of the Allied Balkans States The Macedonians have continually, over the centuries, risen up and fought for independence and freedom, and by their persistent struggle aided the liberation of Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria....More then on hundred thousand Macedonian fighters have fought shoulder to shoulder with the allied armies....Instead of Macedonia, celebrated by Alexander of Macedon, consecrated by the Apostle St. Paul, dignified by the activity of the holy brothers SS. Cyril and Methodius....instead of united, integral and free Macedonia, European diplomacy, and alongside it, you, too, our brothers - allies and liberators, are tearing us into pieces and defiling our sacred ideals....Remember, brother Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks, that you were reborn to start a new life only after 14 bloody wars of Russia against the Ottoman Empire...Remember that a dismembered Macedonia will be an eternal apple of discord among you. Remember that also in the past times of history one after another state perished in the struggle for Macedonia and do not continue the bloody list of the dead in the present time.... Macedonia should be an independent state within its ethnographic, geographical, cultural and historical boundaries, with a government accountable to a national assembly...a national representative body should be established...in the city of Salonika, elected by general vote. Brother allies and liberators! We hope that our words will reach your hearts and minds.... St. Petersburg Signed by the authorized representatives Makedonskii Golos, St. Petersburg, pp. 52-55

September 5, 1913

Dimitrija Chupovski: What did Bulgaria represent for Macedonia The Bucharest Conference of the Balkan states completely destroyed Article 23 of the Berlin Congress which stipulated the introduction of reforms in Macedonia as a self-governing province of Turkey. At the time this stipulation gave wings to the hopes of the Macedonians for the possibility of creating an autonomous Macedonia and proved to be a counter-balance to the stipulations of the Treaty of San Stefano, which defaced Macedonia by its inclusion within the boundaries of Greater Bulgaria. However, regardless of the stipulations of the Berlin Congress, the Treaty of San Stefano constantly instigated the Bulgarians to actions for creating a Greater Bulgaria at the expanse of Macedonia and they continually spent millions of rubles for agitation in Macedonia by opening their own, purely Bulgarian, schools and churches. As a result of this, Bulgaria began regarding itself as the only future liberator of Macedonia, comparing its role in the cause of the liberation of Macedonia with the role of Russia in the liberating Russo-Turksih War. We, however, cannot agree at all with such a comparison....Russia was Bulgaria's liberator, and accordingly, to compare its role with the role of Bulgaria in the present war is, at the very least, absurd and ridiculous for our contemporaries, before whose eyes this tragicomedy was being acted. The role of Bulgaria as regards to Macedonia was from the very beginning criminal; it was first to violate...the article of the Berlin Treaty which bound Turkey to introduce reforms in Macedonia. Moreover, carrying out unbearable, extremely chauvinist, propaganda among the Macedonians through its Constantinople Patriarchate, Bulgaria was the first to cause rivalry and the introduction of similar propaganda by the Greeks and the Serbs, thus instilling discord among the Macedonians. During the whole 30 years of its existence as a state, Bulgaria has carried out anti-Macedonian policy. Flattering and attracting the Macedonians to its side. at the same time it persecuted them with ferocity and hatred and strove to destroy in them any idea of an autonomous Macedonia; while doing so, the Bulgarians did not shrink from using any means. Thus, in 1888, the Bulgarian Government destroyed the 'Macedonian Literary Society' under the presidency of Georgi Pulevski....Two years later, in that same Sofia, the Bulgarian Government closed the evening schools, specially opened for the emigrant Macedonian craftsman, and the heads of those schools. Macedonian patriots - Damjan Gruev, Delchev, Petre Pop Arsov and many others - were expelled from Bulgaria. In addition, let us consider just those persecution to which the so-called Internal Macedonian Organization was exposed, working on the spiritual revival of Macedonia and its political liberation. Its members were persecuted both by the Bulgarian government and the Exarchate, the local instrument of those governments. In order to paralyze the successes resulting from the activity of the Internal Macedonian Organization, the Bulgarian government formed with Macedonian emigrant a requisite counter-Macedonian organization (made of the dregs(?) of society), known under the name of the Supreme Macedonian-Adrianople Committee, the task of which was to trumpet to the whole world that Macedonia is a purely Bulgarian country. Who does not know the shameful role of this Committee shown through its activity on the partition of Macedonia as a whole and of the Macedonian intelligentsia in particular? Guided by the Bulgarian government through its teachers and generals of the type of Mihajlovski and Conchev, this Committee acted against the Macedonian liberation movement and worked with all means on the annexation of Macedonia to Bulgaria. Still more criminal was the role of Bulgaria in this shameful 'liberation' war. Did not Bulgaria hold long negotiations concerning the division of Macedonia with its present occupiers? Did it not, according to the treaty of 29th February 1912 with the Serbs, give to them the whole western section of Macedonia and thus violate its integrity? Did not Bulgaria, which attracted Greece, too, to the Serbo-Bulgarian alliance, start to divide Macedonia? Could it not know that the Greeks might join the alliance only because they had in mind the acquisition of the southern section of Macedonia? Is not Bulgaria to be blamed for the partition of Macedonia, hiding the real aim of the war from the representatives of the Macedonian people, which it had to reckon with. On the contrary, starting the war, it declared to the Macedonians that it was fighting against Turkey alongside the allies for their liberation. Allowing the Macedonians to organize themselves into military units, Bulgaria committed a hunderdfold crime, because it did not allow them to fight against Turkey in their native land, but directed them to Thrace, towards the shore of the Sea of Marmara, under the walls of Adrianople and the trenches of Chataldzha, which weren't needed, except for a bunch of Bulgarian glory-hunters; and the happened at the same time when the allied Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks were conquering Macedonia. How can we explain this criminal act of the Bulgarians towards the Macedonians, if not by the fear that those same Macedonians with arms in their hands would defend their homeland equally from any encroachments upon its independence? But in fact Bulgaria thus ruined not only Macedonia but also all its future. Shedding now crocodile tears for the lost Macedonia, did Bulgaria at the proper time make any attempt to preserve the indivisibility of Macedonia, which it likes to call its younger sister? How can some Bulgarian patriots claim that Bulgaria was in respect to Macedonia that biblical mother which appeared before Solomon's court? Would not a mother worthy of setting an example rather prefer to renounce her own son in only he could thus remain intact? However, as we all know, Bulgaria was the first to agree to the partition of Macedonia. Why has not Bulgaria up to this moment acted like a real "native mother" with her unselfishness, with motherly generosity towards Macedonia, with a project for its autonomy? This is exactly the attitude of Bulgaria which could have ensured the integrity and indivisibility of Macedonia, peace among the Balkan peoples and would have preserved the dignity of the "native mother" herself - Bulgaria. What hindered it, having included the item about the autonomy of Macedonia in the treaty, from raising at the proper time the question about the realization of that item? Nobody hinder it at all, but it did not make any attempts itself to raise this question. It did not make this attempt after the end of the first half of the war, when it realized that its allies of yesterday, the Serbs and the Greeks, having occupied Macedonia, would not like to leave it. And instead of submitting a project for autonomy, it decided to go to war, in order to gain as great as possible a section of Macedonia for itself. Even following the defeat, when the question was posed not for Macedonia but for Bulgaria itself - I am referring here to the Conference of Bucharest, where Bulgaria was "generously" offered an eighth or tenth part of Macedonia - here, too, it preferred to take that part, and did not follow the example of the biblical mother, renouncing its share of the child. I repeat, the following of this, there are some people again who compare the present position of Bulgaria to the position of Russia in the liberating Russo-Turksih War, with a desire in this way to represent it in the role of the same unselfish liberator as Russia was with regard to Bulgaria itself, refusing to see that the main reason for the misfortunes of Macedonia were precisely the Bulgaria aspiration towards this long tortured land. Dimitrija Chupovski, Makednoskii Golos, pp. 130-133

July 20, 1916

Rene Picard: The Autonomy of Macedonia The idea of Macedonia autonomy is familiar to all those who are acquainted with Balkan history and politics. If we asked the Christians of Macedonia they would answer that autonomy was the most desirable solution for them. There is and, in fact, there has always been a Macedonian spirit in Macedonia. Geographically, Macedonia has its own unity. Its borders are the following: to the south - Mt. Olympus, the mountains on the north bank of the River Bistrica, Lake Prespa and Lake Ohrid; to the west - the Drim from Debar; to the northwest and north - the Shar Mountains, the highlands north of Skopje, the defile of Kumanovo, the mountains that mark the Serbo-Bulgarian frontiers of before 1912; to the east - the Rhodope Mountains. The borderline with Thrace on this side is not clear. The regions of Drama and Kavalla can either be adjoined to Macedonia or separated from it; the plain of Drama is populated mostly by Turks; the town of Kavalla, like all the ports, has a strong Greek colony. To the south, the Chalcidice Peninsula is geographically Macedonian, but ethnographically Greek; the line of lakes separates it by a natural border from the rest of Macedonia... Les archives du Ministere des affiars etrangeres (Paris). Guerre 1914-1918, Balkans, Dossier generale, pp.158-165.

Dimitar Blagoev on the nationality of the Macedonians (Bulgarian Parliament session) December 10, 1917...D. Blagoev: Subordinate, but independent in their internal affairs. Someone from the left: Don't forget history. D.B.: What history? The one you falsify? (Laughter) We do not recognize such history. We see how things are in reality. It is a fact, gentleman national delegates, that there was a great struggle between the Bulgarian and the Slav peoples in the Balkan peninsula. And that process, described by Mr. Sakszov and supported by others, was not aimed at the unification of the Bulgarian people but at domination over the Slav peoples in the Balkan Peninsula who moved en masse to Byzantium and Asia Minor, and on the other hand, went to the south, towards Macedonia

1918

Rudolph Archibald Reiss on the Macedonians I said I would rather call your Bulgarophones Macedonians. You call these people Bulgarophones, owing to their language which is similar to Bulgarian. But, is it Bulgarian, is the same language spoken in Sofia? No. Macedonian is just as similar to Serbian as it is to Bulgarian. I am not a linguist and I would not allow myself a personal judgment, but disinterested Balaknologist have asserted to me that Macedonian is more similar to Serbian the Bulgarian. It is possible that there are linguists who assert the opposite. But it is a fact that the Macedonia language is spoken neither in Sofia nor in Belgrade. It is an individual Slav language, just as we have the Romansch in Switzerland, spoken in Grisons, apart from Italian. To my mind, the Macedonian can be called neither Bulgarian nor Serb, but simply Macedonian. R.A. Reiss, Sur la situation des Macedonianes et des musulmans dans les nouvelles provinces grecques. Paris, 1918, pp.6-7.

January 4, 1919

Sister Augustine Bewicke on the Macedonian autonomy St. Paul's Hospital, Salonika Dear Sir, Please excuse the liberty I take in writing you, it is because the final settlement in the Balkans is of vital interest to the Catholics in these countries. - I have been 33 years in this Mission, the Uniate Catholic Mission, which at the beginning of the Second Balkan War counted about 10,000 Catholics. The Treaty of Bucharest, which divided Macedonia without any regard to justice, was the cause of these poor people being dispersed on account of their Slav language, which was forbidden in Churches and schools. - The Bishop had his residence in Salonika, he has now been in exile more then 3 years, his priests are dispersed, his flock is indeed without pastors, nor do we have any hope of his return to any place under Greek or Serbian rule. - The Greeks will not admit the Slav language in Churches or schools; the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority Slavs; they call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control. - I whatever way Macedonia might be divided, the people would be always discontented, and would fight again as soon as possible. The only hope I can foresee is in strong autonomy, which neither Greeks nor Bulgars nor Serbs would dare attack; then the Macedonians, who are really intelligent and docile when they are well treated. would peacefully develop this beautiful fertile country... Surely Europe will not leave Macedonia under people whom the Macedonians hate, and whom they will continually fight... Public Record Office (London) - FO 608/44. Peace Conference (British delegation), 1919.

April 10, 1919

Protest from the Provisional representative of the IMRO to the Paris Peace Conference To His Excellency, Monsieur Clemanceau, President of the Council: It is duty of my honor, as a delegate of the Macedonian Committees to the High Peace Conference, to protest against the maneuvers of certain suspicious persons who claim to speak in the name of Macedonia and represent some so-called "Executive Committee of the Macedonian Societies". Let me be allowed to indicate that the Macedonian emigrants to Bulgaria have over the past 30 years created quite a small class of Macedonians Bulgarized to such a point that they sacrifice completely the interests of their native land to those of Bulgaria. People who have two homelands are generally suspicious; what to say, on the other hand, about those who do not hesitate to propose as delegates to the Conference two persons such as Aleksandrov and Protogerov, adherents to the Kaiser and Ferdinand, and organizers of the massacres in Nish? Indeed, there is noone else who could more compromise the cause of "Autonomous Macedonia" before the Aeropagus of the victors! Hence I have the honor to point out that the only Macedonian Societies free from any Bulgarian political influence, or any other, and representing loyally the whole of Macedonia, without distinction of language or religion, are the Macedonian Committees, which starting from the 1893 constituted the IMRO... It is in their name, and by no means in the name of Bulgaria or the Bulgarians, that I have already had the honor to request and now I am requesting again from Your Excellency to grant me an audience so that I may present to You the desires of the Macedonian people... Archimandrite Paul Christoff, General Vicar of Thrace, delegate of the Macedonian Committees. A. Lainovich, Jugoslavika u biblioteci za savremenu - medzhunarodnu dokumentaciju u Parizu - Godishen zbornik na FF, 24-25 (1972-73) pp. 88-89

July 1919

Bulgarian Nikola Pushkarov on "The Economic Wealth of Macedonia and its Neighbors" All the neighbors of Macedonia wish her well. Each of them tries through all means to convince the Macedonians of its significance as a savior. When the population of Macedonia doubts the sincerity of the unwanted liberators, they even prove to it the opposite by the sword. And each of the neighbors denies the other the right to be a liberator. The neighbors waged wars in this dispute, they had been fighting among themselves for years to the right of Macedonia's liberators. They exhausted the three neighboring peoples and almost exterminated the Macedonian people. The wars ended, because the peoples realized that the liberation of Macedonia had turned into enormous increase of the capital of the false patriots at the expanse of the peoples ' blood and sweat. Today the exhausted peoples, exasperated by the terrible patriotic deeds of the false patriots, demand payment for the lies, for the terrible lies which threw them into terrible rows. But the false patriots of the neighbors do not despair; they have created special agencies of mercenaries responsible for proving by excusable and inexcusable means how the Macedonians most closely belong to the "homeland" of their patrons. They have called the population of this unfortunate land either "Bulgarophone Greeks", or "Macedonians Slavo-Serbs,: or "brothers beyond Mount Rila."... ...It is the wealth of Macedonia which makes the false patriots of her neighbors mad with "patriotism". Makes them burn with desire to cut off as large as possible a portion of Macedonia for themselves to "liberate" it, i.e. to deprive the Macedonians of the chance of governing themselves. But you must keep your land, Macedonians, from the false good wishes of those individuals. They will bring you a new slavery, harsher then the former. Your land is entirely capable of an independent existence. ...Unite around the banner of the autonomy of your homeland, because it is the only banner which you will not be persecuted for not being a Greek, Serb or Bulgarian, but simply Macedonian. Bjoletin br. 8 (19.VII.1919) pp.7-8

November 18, 1919

Telegram from the General Council of the Macedonian Societies in Switzerland to the Peace Conference in Paris ..Assembled at its plenary session and working in the name of the whole of the Macedonian people, without serving any foreign policy, energetically protest against the clause allowing the Macedonians the right to opt for Bulgarian nationality. We do not want to be made instruments of Bulgarian irredentism in Macedonia. Macedonia has never been a part of the present Bulgarian Kingdom. The Bulgarian diplomats, who bear part of the responsibilities for the misfortunes of the Macedonian population, are by no means qualified to intercede in favor of our cause and have no right to do it... Secretary: Bl. Bojadziev; Vice-Persident: G. Nikolov Lj. Lape, Aktivnosta na Glavniot odbor, p. 190

1991

The Constitution of the independent Republic of Macedonia

Taking as the points of departure the historical, cultural, spiritual and statehood heritage of the Macedonian people and their struggle over centuries for national and social freedom as well as the creation of their own state, and particularly the traditions of statehood and legality of the Krushevo Republic and the historic decisions of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia, together with the constitutional and legal continuity of the Macedonian state as a sovereign republic within Federal Yugoslavia and freely manifested will of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia in the referendum of September 8th, 1991, as well as the historical fact that Macedonia is established as a national state of the Macedonian people, in which full equality as citizens and permanent co-existence with the Macedonian people is provided for Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Romanics and other nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia, and intent on:

the establishment of the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign and independent state, as well as a civil and democratic one; the establishment and consolidation of the rule of law as a fundamental system of government; the guaranteeing of human rights, citizens' freedoms and ethnic equality; the provision of peace and a common home for the Macedonian people with the nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia; and on the provision of social justice, economic wellbeing and prosperity in the life of the individual and the community.

1995

The 80-page human rights violation report on Greece entitled "Denying Ethnic Identity - Macedonians of Greece" was published in May 1994. After visiting Aegean Macedonia, the part of Macedonia that Greece took in 1913 after the partition of the country, the Human Rights Watch/Helsinki concluded:

"Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been persecuted and convicted for their peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government - followed and threatened by the security forces - and subjected to economic and social pressure resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity."

2001

The remarkable results of the recent genetic scientific research (NATIONAL CENTER FOR BIOTECHNOLOGY INFORMATION, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain) on the Macedonians and Greeks scientifically confirmed that TODAY'S MACEDONIAN NATION IS DIRECT DESCENDENT OF THE ANCIENT MACEDONIANS, NOT RELATED NEITHER TO THE BULGARIANS, NOR TO THE GREEKS. The genetic study showed that the ancient Macedonian Genes found in today's Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum along with the remains of the ancient nations of Phrygia (Anatolia), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Phoenicia (Lebanon). The Greeks on the other hand, do not belong to this group, but rather have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups.

HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:

1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians,

2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,

3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

Does this facts prove that greeks are stolling Macedonian history?? Macedonia and Alexander were never greeks?
For those that had their own language, but did not have an alphabet to express words in written form used the ancient Greek alphabet.

The Greeks referred to these people as Greek but having a different DIALECT. - civil wars, as written by the Greeks, were actually wars of different ethnicities in my mind.

When the Greeks stated, all of the greek people stopped fighting and united against Persia, again, was misrepresented.

( its amazing how the same fight took place in WWI - Balkan vs. Ottoman)

After WWI the greeks took Albanian, Macedonian, and Bulgarian land, claiming historic ties (referring to failed colonizations).

the Trojans, I strongly believe, are not Greek.

the Greeks twisted history again with Alexander, saying he spread Greek culture, but he actually combined the best of all the cultures he came in contact with in his conquest.

I'd hate to seem anti-Greek, but come on,

Greek (Turkish) coffee, Greek Salad,

they seem to quick to call everything and everyone Greek and not recognize other peoples and cultures.
Reply:Were your arguments true, then Pelloponisos would be a different country, as would Athens, Crete and the Dodekanese.

The people of FYROM are NOT Greeks, they're just common THIEVES if they want to call their country what it is NOT. Report It

Reply:read ragzeus answer below! He answers corectly. Report It

Reply:ragzeus is just full of SKATAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Report It

Reply:Thank you fronto. As you can see the above person hasn't got any arguments! But he is trying to learn some Greek! The language of the ancient Greek Macedonians!

Unfortunately fanaticism will not lead anywhere! Report It

Reply:Pity for the Slav-Macedonians who have such ( I hope few) fanatics and brainwashed people among them! Report It

Reply:{By the way the word "SKATA" Mr Solun used is the slang Greek word for the English word "****". Please everybody admire his culture!

( I will like to ask that he is a pitty exception among the Slav-Macedonians and the Albanian-Macedonians)} Report It

Reply:ALEXANDER THE GREAT IS GREEK AND SO IS MACEDONIA!!!! Report It

Reply:correct!

But there is also a Slavic/Albanian- Macedonia but they are not related to authentic Macedonia of Greece. Report It

Reply:Macedonia its Greek word to my friend and it means long region.

The Slavians came to Macedonia at 800 ac and Macedonia exists from 2500 BC. Try to reed carefully history and to exam your sources! Report It

Reply:Being ΄Ελλην, i do not recognize the term "Macedonia". But i do know that Μακεδονία is a part of Ελλάς. The rest is fairy-tales. next Report It

Reply:I guess they called them Greek, because they themselves were educated by greeks and aspired to become greeks. Report It

Reply:Let me answer:

macedonians are from slovenians ( they were one of the oldest people on balkan today knows as serbians ). So macedonians need to call serbians, not greeks. Macedonians have almost the same language with serbians, same calture. With greece they have NOTHING. Report It

Reply:this argument about macedonians are greeks is definitely a fight over alexander the great's identity.hadn't he been written in history as a great leader u guys wont definitely be fighting over who wrote better about the argument. Report It

Reply:for those who made so much research,i think u should research more other than greek resources and those who has no reference to write u better dig more of the history and provide a credible reference...i think DNA testing will give rest to this argument. Report It

Reply:The fact is that ancient(Greek) Macedonians were Greeks. The modern authentic Macedonians are Greeks.

The modern Slav-Macedonians are not Greeks. The modenr Albanian-Macedonians are not Greeks too. Report It

Reply:Read my answers below at list to get some more information (and the real facts). Report It

Reply:Greeks are history stealers and land Report It

Reply:are you people INSANE???greeks are the most original people EVER MET...it's not that i'm greek or south macedonian...LOOK at the turks...biggest stealers EVER...how could you ever say this??? Report It

Reply:Sorry,you all actually believe that Macedonia isn't Greek? How can you say that Greeks are stealers!?I've studied ancient Greek scipts(eg. Stravon)and they say that Macedonians are Greek 100%,and not only that...!People from F.Y.R.O.M are lieing not The Greeks! Report It

Reply:Macedonia is Greek .Alexander the great was Greek.Fyrom is nothing but an area with a stolen name.... Report It

Reply:Macedonians were Greeks a but the citizens of current Macedonia (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) are not and they have never been even connected to Greek culture. You also have a region in Greece which is called Macedonia and that is the true Macedonia where Alexander and Philip are from. Report It

Reply:Alexander the Great and Macedonia was Greek. I hate people who don't have history as Hellas has and they say we steal and mix other people's cultures. That is just nonsense. Greek people were the first people to have a real culture and civilization along with other few nations like Egyptians. Report It

Reply:Greeks are boring. Mr Portokalos too. And the word "kimono" is not Japanese, but Greek.

But, the blood analysis show that GREEK BLOOD IS VERY CLOSE TO THE ETHIOPIAN AND TO OTHER SUB-SAHARAN PEOPLES.!!!!!!!! Report It

Reply:Rag- gz- guzeus is very boring!!!!!!!! Report It

Reply:Plava +Gone M please use one Id! It is not nice to pretend that you are more than one!

hahahahahaah!!!

I really liked the part about Blood!!!

hahahahahahaahaaa!! What a racist! Report It

Reply:(the guy plav-a (Gone M) actually believes a movie!!!! hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!)

Keep comment guys! Thank you for the laughter you give us! Report It

Reply:The so called "Greeks" are very afraid of their own scientist Dimitris Litoksou. Same as from Fallmerayer. They just do not read that. Report It

Reply:Or THEIR Anastasia Karkasidou. Report It

Reply:if anyone is reading what I wrote, then you need a life Report It

Reply:The "Greek scientist Dimitris Lithoksoou" is actually not a scientist and he calls himself "a not Greek"! Surprise , surprise, he is a member of the small fanatic group who call themselves

"Slav-Macedonians of Greece".

Of course he is discredited and his view are political and not historical! Report It

Reply:As for Falmerayer!!! Well let me inform you that Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer theory about the Peloponnese's Greeks is considered highly discredited and it is used today only from white racist groups in order to describe how the "inferior Slavic blood has polluted the pure Greek blood!" Report It

Reply:I dont beleve that the above user (GonemPlav) is actually suporting such a theory!!!

It is amazing!!! Report It

Reply:Already in 19th century other scholars have critisised Fallmerayer and attacked his theory. such as Karl Hopf's in his Geschichte Griechenlands (reprinted from Ersch and Grubers Encyclopädie), Report It

Reply:Also the Austrian scholar Bartholomaeus Kopitar and the great historian Finlay in his great work "History of Greece in the Middle Ages". Report It

Reply:Another theory of Fallmerayer which he propounded and defended with great vigor was that the eventual capture of Constantinople by Russia was inevitable, and would lead to the absorption by the Russian empire of the whole of the Balkan and Grecian peninsula; Report It

Reply:and that this extended empire would constitute a standing menace to the western Germanic nations, and urged for the Germans to react against Russia! Report It

Reply:Everyone suspected political motivations in his writings; namely an Austrian desire for expansion southwards into the Balkans, and Austrian antagonism to Russian interests in the area reflected in his other writings. Report It

Reply:His theories also influenced the development of Nordic racial views in Germany (and Austria) as part of the claim for genetic and spiritual affinity between Germany and ancient Greece, Report It

Reply:which culminated in the highly dubious theory that the ancient Greeks were blond descendants of an invading population, which was held both by academics and extreme nationalists. (E. A. Wallis Budge held that Egyptians were also descended from blond invaders!!!!!.). Report It

Reply:Fallmerayer did selective usage of a few Byzantine sources (ignoring key Greek and Latin documents of the same period),

Amazingly he even forgot to mention entire passages from the "Chronicle of Monemvasia" Report It

Reply:For example Fallmerayer quote (from the "Chronicle of Monemvasia") the Slavic invasion in the Greek empire of Byzantium!

" In another incursion they [the Slavs/Avars] placed under their control all of Thessaly and Greece, Old Epirus, Attica, and Euboia. Report It

Reply:They attacked and forcibly subjugated the Peloponnesus, expelling and destroying the noble and Hellenic peoples, and they themselves settled there. "

BUT THE STORY CONTINUES!!!!! Report It

Reply:Falmerayer FAILS to quote the rest of the document were it desrcibes how the Greeks managed to survive:

" Those Greeks who were able to flee from the blood-stained hands of the Slav/Avars scattered themselves in various places: Report It

Reply:the inhabitants of the city of Patras resettled in the area of Rhegium Calabria, the Argives on that island called Orobe, and the Corinthians came to dwell on the island named Aegina. At this same time some of the Lakones, Report It

Reply:abandoning their ancestral homeland, sailed off to the island of Siciliy, and even today they are still in an area of Sicily called Demena, calling themselves Demenitai instead of Lacedaemonians but preserving their own Laconian dialect. Report It

Reply:Others discovered an inaccessible region [in the Peloponnesus] on the coast, and founded a strong city there--naming it Monemvasia because there was only one entrance to it--and they settled there with their own bishop. Report It

Reply:Their herdsmen and farmers settled in rugged areas in the vicinity and have recently been called Tzaconians."

(still the Tzaconians speak a Greek dialect which is the only Doric dialect that remains in Greece) Report It

Reply:But the worst is that Falmerayer ALSO DOESENT MENTION THE DESTRUCTION OF THE SLAVS FROM THE BYZANTINE GREEKS AND THE REBULDING OF THE GREEK CITIES! Report It

Reply:(Again quote from the "Chronicle of Monemvasia")

: "Only the eastern portion of the Peloponnesus, from Corinth to Malea, remained free from the Slavic nation on account of the rugged and inaccessible terrain in these areas. Report It

Reply:The Roman emperor used to appoint a "strategos of the Peloponnesus" over this region. One of these strategoi, a member of the Scleros family from Lesser Armenia, attacked the Slavic tribes, DEFEATED AND UTTERLY DESTROYED THEM, AND ENABLED THE ANCIENT INHABITANTS TO RECOVER THEIR POSSESIONS. Report It

Reply:When he heard about this, the above-mentioned Emperor Nicephorus became filled with joy and DESIRED TO RESTORE THE CITIES THERE, to rebuild the churches which the barbarians had destroyed, and to convert these barbarians to Christianity. Report It

Reply:Wherefore, having made inquiry concerning the colony in which the former inhabitants of Patras dwelled, HE ORDERED THAT THEY BE RESETTLED, along with their own bishop (who at that time was named Athanasius) ON THEIR FORMER LANDS... " Report It

Reply:Justinian II defeated and destroyed most of Sclaviniai, and moved as many as 110,000-200,000 Slavs from the Greek peninsula to Cappadocia, By the 9th century AD, Sclavinias in Greece were largely eliminated and we have no refernces by any Byzantine Greek authors ever again!!!!!! Report It

Reply:Strangely enough the Pseudo-Macedonians don't read history. Further more they even claim contradictory things!

According to them modern Greeks are either descenders of Slavs or Descenders of the ancient Greeks who were sub Saharan!!!!

They cant even make up their minds!!! Report It

Reply:As for Karakasidou she has made an excellent work! Of course she claims that modern Slav-Macedonians have no relation with the ancient Greek-Macedonians!!! Report It

Reply:She also clearly states that the Slavic population of Macedonia was mainly Bulgarian. Of course no were she mentions any "ethnic non Greek Macedonians". Report It

Reply:There are not Slavs Macedonians, is clear in every part of World: MACEDONIANS! Report It

Reply:Is there no limit to the size/length of a question/supplement? And that's a net trick ragzeus uses, stringing answers together to make a long speech. Report It

Reply:MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS!!!!YOU FOOLS!!!ANY SUCKER FROM F.Y.R.OM. MUST OPEN A BOOK ABOUT ALEXANDER THE GREAT AND READ IT!!!MY NAME IS ALEXANDER AND IM FROM GREECE SO I KNOW ALL THESE THINGS!!! Report It

Reply:I AM FROM THE PLACE WHERE ALEXANDER THE GREAT BORN AND LIVED AND ALL I SAY ITS TRUE!!!!ANYONE WHO BELIEVES SOMETHING ELSE HE :GET LOST!!!!!!!! Report It

Reply:historyofmacedonia.org is the worst site i ve ever seen!!!!!!!!!! Report It

Reply:and yet all Macedonian-Greek ruins are still in Greece and the name of your tiny country is F.Y.R.O.M, please give me a break and please do answer was or was not ancient Greek language spoken by Alexander the great?
Reply:A curved ball. The Irish are Scots, and the Scots are Irish, most Turks are Greeks, and the Khazars are Jewish. The Spanish are Visigoths, Celts and Moors, well mixed.

Now that I´ve insulted a lot of people, bear in mind is that culture, not ethnicity is what counts. Too bad nuts like Hitler failed to see that many Jews were more German than the Germans.
Reply:Normally this question with all the bla bla you provide had to be to another category (Fairytails) but I'll answer though your question here.

Macedonians were GREEKS.. and there is no doubt about this from the fact that they were participating in Ancient Olympic Games where ONLY GREEKS were participated.

About Boulgarians, Serbians and generally and slavs that you are reffering to, have been appeared in the area in the 6th-7th century AD.

What do they have to do with Macedonians and Alexander the great, I have no idea.

Macedonians were different state than the rest, as was Spartans, Athenians, Argolians, Thevians, but they were not different nation.

THEY ALL WERE GREEKS.

I understand that "Some try to faulcify the history" because they have not any identity. They deserve to get one as well a country to live.... BUT THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO ATTEMPT TO STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S IDENTITY.
Reply:You actually belevie what you write?

Incredible lies!! You did try to post some arguments but unfortunately either you use fallacies or you don’t know what you are talking about! You dont even see that at every text the word Macedonian is used to describe a not Slav! Also all your texts are completly mistranslated and probably with aded text!

Let me give you a small history lesson since you obviouslly need it!

I)Macedonians took part in the Olympic games and the first one was Alexander the Philhellene (The king of Macedonia, Alexander I, was named Philhellene by the Theban poet Pindaros for the same reason Jason of Pherrai and Euagoras of Cyprus were called Philhellenes (Isocrates 107A, 199A). The title Philhellene in ancient times meant Philopatris (lover of the homeland) or simply put “a patriot” (Plato, Politics, 470E; Xenophon, Agesilaus, 7, 4), which is why Alexander the Great did not touch the traditional house of Pindaros when he ordered his soldiers to burn Thebes. The term Philhellenes was given in Ancient years only to Greeks!)

Alexander the Phillelen was asked (as every other Greek had to) to prove his Greek origin before participating to the Olympic Games! And Alexander proved his Greek origin! YES he proved his GREEK ORIGIN from the city of ARGOS (the Macedonians themselves claimed Argos as their origin!) (... Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery.... If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon."

(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)

Since then a lot of Macedonians participated to the Olympic Games and a lot won! There are 13 winners from Macedonia in scripted in Olympia! (WHOOA you didn’t know that either!) Most famous is King Philip himself and King Archelaos of Macedonia who took part 50 years before Philip! HERE ARE THE NAMES AND DATES OF THE MACEDONIANS WINNERS OF OLYMPIC GAMES:

472 BC Boys’ Boxing, winner Tellon from Macedonia (we also have the name of his city Orestheia)

408 BC Tethrippon, winner Archelaos King of Macedonia

380 BC Pankration, winner Xenophon (we also have the name of his city Aigai)

356 BC Horse Race, winner Philip II King of Macedonia

352 BC Tethrippon, winner Philip II King of Macedonia

348 BC Synoris, winner Philip II King of Macedonia

328 BC Stadion, winner Kliton Macedonia

320 BC Stadion, winner Damasias Macedonia

304 BC Tethrippon, winner Lampos Macedonia (we also have the name of his city Philippoi)

292 BC Stadion, winner Antigonos Macedonia

288 BC Stadion , winner Antigonos Macedonia

268 BC Foals’ Tethrippon, winner Belestichos Macedonia

268 BC Stadion, winner Seleukos Macedonia

264 BC Synoris, winner Belestichos Macedonia

129 BC Unknown game, winner Diephilos (we also have the name of his city Aigai )

Macedonia as every other Greek state celebrated the Olympic Gods at their land and every Greek state had games or a festival dedicated to the Olympian Gods (Aren’t those the Greek Gods?) These are the Olympic festival (that had also games) that the Macedonians celebrated in their land and they were taking place not only in Dion but also at a lot of places of Macedonia. By the way the Festival or Olympic games of Dion was a Pan-Hellenic Festival and people of all over Greece came to participate! (You dint know that either!!)

Now please tell me how it is possible, if the Macedonians were not Greeks that they insisted to participate to the Olympic Games!! If they were not Greeks they shouldn’t be interest to the Greeks only Festivals! Instead they came willingly and constantly to participate! Why? Because they considered them selves Greeks! Simple as that!

(Macedonia was independent as every other Greek state and it had alliance either with Athens or with Sparta (like every other Greek state!) Philip did not invade Greece!!!! He attacked various Greek states (exactly like Athens, Sparta, Thebes had done before him) but with a crucial difference! He was the first who manage to unite entire Greece under his hegemony! When he formed the league of Corinth with him as Hegemon (meaning leader) ONLY GREEKS WERE ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE LEAGUE!!!!)

II) Macedonians as every other Greeks they spoke and wrote in Greek! The most important evidence is the archaeological discoveries! The archaeological discoveries from real Macedonia are the strongest proof that ancient Macedonia was part of the ancient Greek world. All the inscriptions on monuments, coins and other artifacts have the Greek language on them. There are no ancient monuments with a different language. Furthermore there are a large number of discoveries in Asia in the route of Alexander the Great. All these monuments, discovered in Pakistan, Kuweit, India and many more countries, prove that Alexanders quest was Greek and that his goal was to spread the Greek civilization all over the world.

III) the term Barbarian was not used against Macedonians!!! Were exactly have you found an ancient text that refers to the Macedonians as Barbarians???? It is only found in the speeches of Demosthenes against King Philip only!!! Demosthenes was a sworn enemy of Philip and he constantly attacked him! It was meant as an insult for Philip and actually King Philip was greatly insulted that he was called a non Greek!

IV) Macedonians like every other Greeks worshiped the same Gods! The Olympian 12 Gods and various other deities and heroes such as Achilles and Hercules!

Alexander never destroyed any temple of any Greek God!!(I am amazed from this statement because it is a sign of ignorance and pure propaganda!) Even when Alexander destroyed the city of Thebes the Greeks (including Macedonians) decide “to distribute among themselves all the territory, EXCEPT WHAT WAS DETICATED TO THE GODS; and to sell into slavery the women and children, and as many of the males as survived, EXCEPT THOSE WHO WERE PRIESTS OR PRIESTESESS, ….”

There are a lot of Temples discovered in Macedonia! (you really believe that there aren’t any??) Let me tell you who are the most famous

The temple of Afrodite in Dion

The temple of Eukleia in Vergina Aigai

The temple of Zeus in Dodoni

The entire complex of Dion (full of Greek temples and heroa) was dedicated to Zeus! Hello!!! ZEUS! The Greek God!! You know!!

By the way there isn’t any such name of Ares such as Macedonian Ares! Were exactly have you find this claim? This is probably either fallacy or a selected quotation!

In every part of Greece Ares is the same God Ares as the rest of Greeks worship!

Dodonaios Zeus is the same as Olympian Zeus and Dion Zeus!

Athena Parthenos is the same as Olympian Athina and Aigina Athina.

Even a templed build by the Greeks in Troy is called Trojan Athina!! (is she a different Godess?)

It is custom in Greece (even today) to use the land name as the epithet of the deity!

It is truth that the Greeks transformed or substitute foreign Gods with Greek ones

The problem with your argument is that the God used both names such as Amon –Zeus, Aphrodite –Istar etc. This was done only with a foreign God. Since Macedonia was Greek as Athens or Epirus the God was the same. But if you don’t believe me here are some ancient texts about the believes of the Ancient Macedonians

“…HAVING settled these affairs (Alexander), he returned into Macedonia. He then offered to the Olympian Zeus the sacrifice which had been instituted by Archelaus, and had been customary up to that time;….”

(Arian Alexander’s Anabases)

“They say also that he was the first man to step out of the ship in full armour on the land of Asia, and that he erected altars to Zeus, the protector of people landing, to Athena, and to Heracles, at the place in Europe whence he started, and at the place in Asia where he disembarked. It is also said that he went up to Ilium and offered sacrifice to the Trojan Athena; that he set up his own n panoply in the temple as a votive offering, and in exchange for it took away some of the consecrated arms which had been preserved from the time of the Trojan war. It is also said that the shield-bearing guards used to carry these arms in front of him into the battles. A report also prevails that he offered sacrifice to Priam upon the altar of Zeus the household god, deprecating the wrath of Priam against the progeny of Neoptolemus, from whom Alexander himself was descended. “

(Arian Alexander’s Anabases)

“..He therefore resolved to build a temple to the Olympian Zeus on the hill, and to erect an altar in it; but while he was considering which part of the hill was the most suitable site, suddenly a winter storm arose, though it was the summer season, loud claps of thunder were heard, and rain fell on the spot where the palace of the kings of Lydia had stood. From this Alexander thought that the deity had revealed to him where the temple to Zeus ought to be built; and he gave orders accordingly...”

(Arian Alexander’s Anabases)

V) The Macedonians had the same burial customs as the rest of the Greeks.

They performed exactly the same rituals and they offer the same sacrifice to the Greek Gods!

The famous Macedonian tomb of Philip is build to look alike a Greek temple!

(Royal tomb of Philip Vergina).

The professor Borza who you claim as an expert is actually agreeing that ancient Macedonians were of Greek origin!! Here is a text of his book:

“h Eugene N. Borza, ‘Makedonika’

Regina Books, Claremont CA

"Our understanding of the Macedonians' emergence into history is confounded by two events: the establishment of the Macedonians as an identifiable ethnic group, and the foundation of their ruling house. The "HIGHLANDERS" or "MAKEDONES" of the mountainous regions of western Macedonia ARE DERIVED FROM NORTHWEST GREEK STOCK; THEY WERE AKIN BOTH TO THOSE WHO AT AN EARLIER TIME MAY HAVE MIGRATED SOUTH TO BECOME THE HISTORICAL "DORIANS", and to other Pindus tribes who were the ancestors of the Epirotes or Molossians. That is, we may suggest that NORTHWEST GREECE PROVIDED A POOL OF INDO-EUROPEAN SPEAKERS OF PROTO-GREEK from which were drawn the tribes who later were known by different names as they established their regional identities in separate parts of the country."

"First, the matter of the Hellenic origins of the Macedonians: Nicholas Hammond's general conclusion (though not the details of his arguments)that the origin of the Macedonians lies in the pool of proto-Greek speakers who migrated out of the Pindus mountains during the Iron Age, is acceptable."

( I really like this part!!!)

VI) All the names of Ancient Macedonia are Greek! All the cities the ancient Macedonians were named with Greek names! Such as Aigai , Pella, Thesalloniki, Veroia, Oresteias, Philipoi, and hundreds more like Anthemous, Almopia, Amphaxitis, Bisaltia, Botiaia, Chakildiki, Edonis, Elimeia,Eordaia, Krestonia, Lynkests, Mygdonia,Odomantis, Orestis, Pelagonia, Pieria, Sintiki, Thassos, Tymphaea and more!! All these Greek names originate from the ancient times and they are found in scripted and in the coinage of real Macedonians and consequently they are much older than the Slavic alternatives. Most of these names are used even today in Greece.

VII) You decide to use some quotations the way you Slavs Macedonians do.

These quotes usually consist of one or two isolated lines which are misleading. Reading the whole document the meaning is completely different. The translation is not accurate or some words have been carefully altered to change the meaning.

Let me give you some real quotes from the ancients:

“Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander"

"He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia",

(Arrian I, 16, 7)

"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury;... I have been appointed hegemon of the Greeks... "

(Arrian, II, 14, 4)

"There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service -- but how different is theirs cause from ours ! They will be fighting for pay--- and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes --- they are the best and stoutest soldiers of Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia."

(Arrian, 11.7)

"You ought to have remembered that you are not the attendant of and adviser of Cambyses or Xerxes, but of Philip's son, a man with the blood of Heracles and Aeacus in his veins, a man whose forefathers came from Argos to Macedonia, where they long ruled not by force, but by law."

(Arrian 4.11)

"Well, here we are in a foreign land; and if for that reason we must think foreign thoughts, yet I beg you, Alexander, to remember Greece; it was for her sake alone, that you might add Asia to her empire, that you undertook this campaign. Consider this too: when you are home again, do you really propose to force the Greeks, who love their liberty more than anyone else in the world, to prostrate themselves before you?"

(Arrian 4.11)

"In this latter place he (Alexander) found political troubles in progress, and settled them, remitting the tribute which the town paid to Darius on the ground that Mallus was a colony of Argos and he himself claimed to be descended from the Argive Heracleidae."

(Arrian 5)

"He set the Persian palace on fire, even though parmenio urged him to save it, arguing that it was not right to destroy his own property, and that the Asians would not thus devote themselves to him, if he seemed determined not to rule Asia, but only to pass through as a conqueror. But Alexander replied that he intended to punish the persians for their invasion of Greece, the destruction of Athens, the burning of the temples, and all manner of terrible things done to the Greeks: because of these things, he was exacting revenge. But Alexander does not seem to me to have acted prudently, nor can it be regarded as any kind of punishment upon Persians of long ago.

[Arrian, 3.18.11-12]

[edit]Arrian, "The Indica"

"...There a man appeared to them, wearing a Greek cloak, and dressed otherwise in the Greek fashion, and speaking Greek also. Those who first sighted him said that they burst into tears, so strange did it seem after all these miseries to see a Greek, and to hear Greek spoken. They asked whence he came, who he was; and he said that he had become separated from Alexander's camp, and that the camp, and Alexander himself, were not very far distant. Shouting aloud and clapping their hands they brought this man to Nearchus..."

(Arrian, XXXIII)

"...On this Alexander wept the more, since the safety of the force had seemed too good to be true; and then he enquired where the ships were anchored. Nearchus replied: 'They are all drawn up at the mouth of the river Anamis, and are undergoing a refit.' Alexander then called to witness Zeus of the Greeks and the Libyan, Ammon that in good truth he rejoiced more at this news than because he had conquered all Asia since the grief he had felt at the supposed loss of the fleet cancelled all his other good fortune..."

(Arrian,XXXV)

"...Alexander then sacrificed thank-offerings for the safety of his host, to Zeus the Saviour, Heracles, Apollo the Averter of Evil, Poseidon and all the gods of the sea; and he held a contest of art and of athletics, and also a procession..."

(Arrian,XXXVI)

"...The Greeks moved on thence, from the sacred island, and were already coasting along Persian territory..."

(Arrian,XXXVIII)

"...Thence they sailed eight hundred stades, anchoring at Troea; there were small and poverty-stricken villages on the coast. The inhabitants deserted their huts and the Greeks found there a small quantity of corn, and dates from the palms..."

(Arrian,XXIX)

Some more from Plutarch:

Plutarch - Moralia, "On the Fortune of Alexander"

"Alexander lived many hundred years ago. He was king of Macedon, one of the states of Greece. His life was spent in war. He first conquered the other Grecian states, and then Persia, and India, and other countries one by one, till the whole known world was conquered by him. It is said that he wept, because there were no more worlds for him to conquer. He died, at the age of thirty-three, from drinking too much wine. In consequence of his great success in war, he was called Alexander the Great."

(Plutarchos, Moralia, On the Fortune of Alexander, I, 328D, 329A [Loeb, F.C. Babbitt])

"But he said, `If I were not Alexandros, I should be Diogenes'; that is to say: `If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things Hellenic, to traverse and civilize every every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to diseminate and shower the blessings of the Hellenic justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorius Hellenes should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Kaukasos...' "

(Plutarchos, On the Fortune of Alexander, 332 a-b)

"Yet through Alexander, Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods of the Greeks ... Alexander established more than seventy cities among savage tribes, and sowed all Asia with Hellenic magistracies ... Egypt would not have its Alexandria, nor Mesopotamia its Seleucia, nor Sogdiana its Prophthasia, nor India its Bucephalia, nor the Caucasus a Hellenic city, for by the founding of cities in these places savagery was extinguished and the worse element, gaining familiarity with the better, changed under its influence.'

(Plutarchos Moralia. On the Fortune of Alexander, I, 328D, 329A)

"When he (Alexander the Great) arrived at Ilion he sacrificed to Athena and offered libations to the Heroes."

(Plutarchos, Alexander 15)

"It is agreed on by all hands, that on the father's side, Alexander descended from Hercules by Caranus, and from Aeacus byNeoptolemus on the mother's side"

(Plutarch, The Life of Alexander)

And some from Herodotus

"Now that the men of this family are Hellenes, sprung from Perdiccas, as they themselves affirm, is a thing which I can declare on my own knowledge, and which I will hereafter make plainly evident. That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia"

(Herodotus, The Histories 8.43)

"Tell your king who sent you how his Hellenic viceroy of Macedonia has received you hospitably... "

(Herodotus V, 20, 4)

"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Hellenes, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know"

(Herodotus V, 22, 1)

"Xerxes, having so spoken, held his peace. (SS 1.) Whereupon Mardonius took the word, and said: ....I myself have had experience of these men when I marched against them by the orders of thy father; and though I went as far as Macedonia, and came but a little short of reaching Athens itself, yet not a soul ventured to come out against me to battle. ......But, notwithstanding that they have so foolish a manner of warfare, yet these Greeks, when I led my army against them to the very borders of Macedonia, did not so much as think of offering me battle."

(Herodotus Book VII)

"...but the Dorians on the contrary have been constantly on the move; their home in Deucalion's reign was Phthiotis and in the reign of Dorus son of Hellen the country known as Histiaeotis in the neighbourhood of Ossa and Olympus; driven from there by the Cadmeians they settled in Pindus and were known as Macedons; thence they migrated to Dryopis, and finally to the Peloponnese, where they got their present name of Dorians."

Herodotus, Book I, 56

"...Three brothers of the lineage of Temenos came as banished men from Argos to Illyria, Gavganis and Aeropos and Perdikkas, and worked for the king that was there.

When the king learned that when the queen baked the bread of Perdikkas, it doubled its size, than of the the other breads, he considered that as a miracle and ordered the 3 brothers to leave his kingdom. The brothers required their payment. Then the king told them to take the sun as a payment. Gavganis and Aeropos where taken by surprise and the youngest brother, Perdikkas, accepted the offer. He took out his sword, circled it 3 times and took the sun, which he placed in his underarm and left with his brothers..."

Herodotus VIII,137

"...and that you may tell your king, who sent you, that a Greek, the lord of Macedonia, entertained you royally both with bed and board."

Herodotus, Book V, 20

"The composition of the fleet was as follows: 16 ships from Lacedaemon, the same number from Corinth as at Artemisium, 15 from Sicyon, 10 from Epidaurus, 5 form Troezen, 3 from Hermione. The people of all these places except Hermione are of Dorian and Macedonian blood, and had last emigrated from Erineus, Pindus, and Dryopis."

Herodotus, Book VIII ,43

Do you want more?

Ok here are some from a Roman:

Polybius' Histories and Macedonia

"If the circumstances are the same now as at the time when you made alliance with the Aetolians, then your policy ought to remain on the same lines.' That was their first proposition. 'But if they have been entirely changed, then it is fair that you should now deliberate on the demands made to you as on a matter entirely new and unprejudiced.' I ask you therefore, Cleonicus and Chlaeneas, who were your allies on the former occasion when you invited this people to join you? Were they not all the Greeks? But with whom are you now united, or to what kind of federation are you now inviting this people? Is it not to one with the foreigner? A mighty similarity exists, no doubt, in your minds, and no diversity at all! Then you were contending for glory and supremacy with Achaeans and Macedonians, men of kindred blood with yourselves, and with Philip their leader; now a war of slavery is threatening Greece against men of another race, whom you think to bring against Philip, but have really unconsciously brought against yourselves and all Greece. For just as men in the stress of war, by introducing into their cities garrisons superior in strength to their own forces, while successfully repelling all danger from the enemy, put themselves at the mercy of their friends,--just so are the Aetolians acting in the present case. For in their desire to conquer Philip and humble Macedonia, they have unconsciously brought such a mighty cloud from the west, as for the present perhaps will overshadow Macedonia first, but which in the sequel will be the origin of heavy evils to all Greece.

"But if thanks are due to the Aetolians for this single service, how highly should we honour the Macedonians, who for the greater part of their lives never cease from fighting with the barbarians for the sake of the security of Greece? For who is not aware that Greece would have constantly stood in the greatest danger, had we not been fenced by the Macedonians and the honourable ambition of their kings?"

(Polybius, Book IX, 35, 2)

"...I assert is that not only the Thessalians, but the rest of the Greeks owed their safety to Philip."

(Polybius, Book IX, 33, 3)

"...because he (Philip) was the benefactor of Greece, that they all chose him commander-in-chief both on sea and land, an honour previously conferred on no one."

(Polybius, Book IX, 33, 7)

"...he (Alexander) inflicted punishment on the Persians for their outrages on all the Greeks, and how he delivered us all from the greatest evils by enslaving the barbarians and depriving them of the resources they used for the destruction of the Greeks, pitting now the Athenians and now the Thebans against the ancestors of these Spartans, how in a word he made Asia subject to Greece."

(Polybius, Book IX, 34, 3)

"The 38th book contains the completion of the disaster of the Hellenes. For though both the whole of Hellas and her several parts had often met with mischance, yet to none of her former defeats can we more fittingly apply, the name of disaster with all it signifies than to the events of my own time. In the time I am speaking of a comon misfortune befell the Peloponnesians, the Boiotians, the Phokians, the Euboians, the Lokrians, some of the cities on the Ionians Gulf, and finally the Macedonians"

(Polybius, Book IX, 38, 8)

Actually we have hundred of references about ancient Macedonia!!! You have nothing!!! Only propaganda and forgery!

But lets see what the respectful historians say about ancient Macedonians!

Nicholas G. L. Hammond, ‘Philip of Macedon’

Duckworth Publishing, February 1998

"Philip was born a Greek of the most aristocratic, indeed of divine, descent... Philip was both a Greek and a Macedonian, even as Demosthenes was a Greek and an Athenian...The Macedonians over whom Philip was to rule were an outlying family member of the Greek-speaking peoples."

"As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for service in the King's Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout."

And Malcolm Errington, ‘A History of Macedonia’

(University of California Press, February 1993, pg 3)

"That the Macedonians and their kings did in fact speak a dialect of Greek and bore Greek names may be regarded nowadays as certain."

"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greeks all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aeschines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'Entirely Greek'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent on appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all."

"The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epirote tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots."

And Robin Lane Fox - "Alexander the Great"

"he was still in a world of Greek gods and sacrifices, of Greek plays and Greek language,though the natives might speak Greek with a northern accent which hardened 'ch' into 'g','th' into 'd' and pronounced King Philip as Bilip".

Page 30.

"Philip's mother had been a Lyncestian noblewoman" - "rebellious kings of Lyncestis who traced their origins to the notorious Bacchiad kings of Greek Corinth"

Page 32.

"Olympia's royal ancestry traced back to the hero Achilles, and the blood of Helen of Troy was believed to run on her father's side"

Page 44.

"The Macedonian kings, who maintained that their Greek ancestry traced back to Zeus, had long given homes and patronage to Greece's most distinguished artists"

Page 48.

"But Alexander was stressing his link with Achilles... Achilles was also a stirring Greek hero, useful for a Macedonian king whose Greek ancestry did not stop Greeks from calling him a barbarian"

Page 60.

"No man, and only one hero, had been called invincible before him, and then only by a poet, but the hero was Heracles, ancestor of the Macedonian kings"

Page 71.

"War, Philip had announced, 'was being declared against the Persians on behalf of the Greeks, to punish the barbarians for their lawless treatment of the old Greek temples"

Page 92.

"among the conservative Greek opinion there would be no regrets that Alexander the Greek leader was invading the barbarians"

Page 101.

"To his ancestors (to a Persian's ancestors) Macedonians were only known as 'yona takabara', the 'Greeks who wear shields on their heads', an allusion to their broad-brimmed hats"

Page 104.

"As for the hired Greeks in Persian service, thousands of the dead were to be buried, but the prisoners were bound in fetters and sent to hard labour in Macedonia, 'because they had fought as Greeks against Greeks, on behalf of barbarians, contrary to the common decrees of the Greek allies'"

Page 123.

"Alexander son of Philip and the Greeks, except the Spartans...", as "Sparta did not consider it to be her fathers' practice to follow, but to lead"

Page 123.

"In spirit, Alexander made a gesture to the Lydians' sensitivities, though his Greek crusade owed them nothing as they were not Greeks."

Page 128.

"Alexander was not the first Greek to be honoured as a god for political favour..."

Page 131.

"Alexander was recognized as a son of Zeus after his visit"

Page 201.

"it was the Delphi of the Greek East and as a Hellene, not as Pharaoh, Alexander would be curious..."

Page 204.

"supported the belief that he was the Greek gos Zeus's son"

Page 214.

"when his Macedonians mutinied at the end of their marching, they were said to have ridiculed him and told him to 'go fight alone with his father', meaning Zeus, not Philip"

Page 216.

"The occasion was not lost on Alexander: at Susa, he sacrificed to Greek gods and held Greek gymnastic games..."

Page 253.

"In return he left behind Darius's mother, daughters and the son whom he had captured at Issus, and appointed teachers to teach them the Greek language."

Page 254.

"Alexander was still the Greek avenger of Persian sacrilege who told his troops, it was said 'that Persepolis was the most hateful city in the world'. On the road there, he met with the families of Greeks who had deported to Persia by previous kings, and true to his slogan, he honoured them conspicuously, giving them money, five changes of clothing, farm animals, corn, a free passage home, and exemption from taxes and bureaucratic harassments."

Page 256.

And these Richard Stoneman, Eugene Borza,Ulrich Wilcken ,John V.A. Fine ,A. B. Bossworth ,Ernst Badian ,Charles Edson,Thomas Martin,Hermann Bengtson ,Paul Cartledge ,A.R. Burn ,Peter Green ,Mary Renault ,J.M. Roberts,R. M. Cook,Francois Chamoux ,Bevan ,Peter Tsouras ,Lewis Vance Cummings ,D.G Hogarth ,L.S. Stavrianos

Martin Sicker ,Graham Shipley ,Richard Gabriel,Michael Cage,Samuel Eddy ,René Grousset ,Anthony E. David ,Donald R. Dudley THEY ALL AGREE THAT ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS. Simple as that!!

Oh about the fake genetic research!

Lets see what the Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of

Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza

Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,

University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza

Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of

Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA say:

“Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit

Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002) © Macmillan Publishers Ltd. Sir

They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute. We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit. Neil Risch

Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of

Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA Alberto Piazza

Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry,

University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza

Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of

Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

HLA genes are not used as a valid measure to determine ancestry since HLA genes, which control immune responses and are subject to environmental selection. This means they're not reliable in determining ancestral affinity, as using them thus can find bonds of kinship between Greeks and Japanese, as well as between Nordics in Iceland and Negroids in the Congo”

Yep this answers your fake arguments!!
Reply:Right, it's CULTURE, not ethnicity what counts.

Sooo Right!!!!
Reply:WOW, you need a life. Alexander was banished from Macedonia and was adopted and concord lands by and for Grease.
Reply:Hello Vasko,I think that what you say is the true.This people that answer only now to talk to much.They don't now nothing about their history,and here they are talking about other people history.Let me see how many of them are been in Europe,don't think about Macedonia or Skopje.Yes my dear people MACEDONIA is MACEDONIA AND ALEXANDER THE GREAT IS NOT NOT A GREEK IS MACEDONIAN.

Dear Vasko thank you very much for the all information you have provided.I'm proud to be a MACEDONIAN,AND I'm proud to know that there are people like you.
Reply:Thank you for all this information, for some ones I know, but someone is new for me and I'm more proud for my Macedonia. You can give 1000 facts Greeks, but they will not believe, because them interest is opposite, they are more richer because they occupied big part of Macedonia and they will do everything to keep our lend. Jesus said:You can give miracles for non believers but they again will not believe, because they have big sins and they don't like Truth.

God with you and with our MACEDONIA.
Reply:It is a very simple thing to answer. It does not have anything to do with what is thought about in modern day at this point. What matters to answer your question is what was Macedonia in Alexander's time? It was Macedonia and it's army conqured all of the city states of Greece. Forming the Greeek country for the first time. So Greece became part of the Macedonian Empire that Alexander was the King of. Any time you try to establish the truth to these kinds of questions you are going to find many sources that contradicct each other. Furthermore Macedonia like any other county in the world has a culture and national identity. Who they conqured when is less important. It is not uncommon that city states and or countries that had been conqured to declare independce again after the ruling power/class changes. So is it a part of Greece? Next time you go to greece and then Macedonia see if a passport is required. If you get a stamp in it then your in another counrty. You do good research but the answer is a matter of when the question is asked. Who knows what the answer will be in a 100 years when we have been pass by history. Maybe some Tyrant will come to power in the unknown future and take over Macedonia. Then call it something else and be part of somthing else.

my horses

Why the sword that goes out of the mouth of Jesus is a sharp double-edged sword?

2011-11-19T01:05:00.001-08:00

In your opinion, what is the meaning of this symbol?

Here is the description that Giovanni has of Jesus in his vision:

Revelation 1:12I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

Why the sword that goes out of the mouth of Jesus is a sharp double-edged sword?
The Word of God is referred to as a sword several places in scripture, including Ephesians 6:17 and Hebrews 4:12. The meaning is that the Word of God penetrates completely like a sword when received, even to the deepest parts of the heart, mind, soul, and spirit.

The first chapter of the Gospel of John makes it clear that Jesus is the living Word and thus in Revelations, the symbol of the sword is linked with Him.
Reply:double edged sword could mean anything, double edged sword to me means it could help you or hurt you depending on what you do. However, I dont pay attention to the bible anymore but double edged sword outside biblical reference means that it is a catch 22
Reply:It would be a lame trick if it was just one of those single edged swords. But it would be even cooler if it was flaming and there was disco music and stuff.

Maybe if he was spinning two plates on sticks at the same time while balancing on a ball. That would be cool.
Reply:I personally think it means you can't stray either way. There are different ways one can stray from Christ, and sometimes justify it. I think the double edge sword says stay on the straight and narrow, any other way is dangerous.
Reply:That is Jesus Christ in angelic form after he comes OFF the mercy seat, Salvatin for the Gentiles is over, that 7th seal has been open, because within that 7th seal, it pertains to every person that Christ die for %26amp; was to Redeem, we see Redemption is over, those 7 stars represent the 7 angels of each church age messengers %26amp; the 7 candlesticks represents the 7 church ages. The sword that comes out of the angel is the WORD OF GOD, you can also find that in Rev. 19:14-17
Reply:The Bible uses different terms for different types of swords. For instance, Hebrews 4:12 speaks of the word being sharper than a two-edged sword. But the word for sword in Hebrews is quite different than the one in Revelation. The sword in Revelation is a long Thracian sword. Purely for destruction. Which makes sense. Jesus is the one who will lead the Battle of Armageddon. The sword is for the destruction of all the wicked and all wickedness.

Hannah
Reply:I believe this shows Jesus absolute authority. After all he created the universe with words.
Reply:because the double edged blade had a connotation of nobility, as opposing the often single edged weapons of warfare. in this case, being the sword of god, or some angelic or divine device anyway, it had of course to be double edged.

by the way... i am not familiar with the text.. but does it actually say somewhere that this guy is jesus?

Rate my Yu-Gi-Oh! Deck?

2011-11-19T01:05:00.000-08:00

See what you think and please point out and problems

7/8 Star Monsters (9)

Blue Eyes White Dragon

Vampire Genesis

Dark Magician

Despair From The Dark

Felgrand Dragon

Gilford The Lightning

Tyrant Dragon

Guardian Angel Joan

Majestic Mech - Goryu

5/6 Star Monsters (2)

Vampire Lord

Summoned Skull

4 Star and Below Monsters (14)

Mystical Elf

The Forgiving Maiden

The Dragon Dwelling In The Cave

Battle Ox

Double Coston

Kaiser Sea Horse x2

Master Kyonshee

La Jinn The Mystical Genie

Regenerating Mummy

Opticlops

Blazing Inpachi

Insect Knight

Slate Warrior

Magic Cards (12)

Monster Reborn

Premature Burial

Pot of Greed

Soul Exchange

Change of Heart

Tribute To The Doomed

Mystical Space Typhoon

Rush Recklessly

Dian Keto The Cure Master

Card Destruction

Sword of Dark Destruction

Lightning Vortex

Trap Cards (8)

Magic Jammer

Shadow Spell

Reinforcements

Just Desserts

Compulsory Evacuation Device

Call of The Haunted

Sakaretsu Armour

Draining Shield

Rate my Yu-Gi-Oh! Deck?
you should build a deck aroud 1 thing.It looks like you just threw cards together
Reply:Try to make a one themed deck and cards that revolve around it. Try making a blue eyes white dragon deck with this one and take out the cards like battle oxe, master kyonshee la jinn, opticlops blazing inpachi majestic mech and others that don't seem to help blue eyes. For the spells take out pot of greed and change of heart because they are banned. For traps take out Just desserts because you don't really need it. Also for the monsters try to get 1900 atk 4 star monsters like luster dragon. Of course, i'm not telling you to do this, but try making a one themed deck that you think you like.
Reply:to many sacs re-think everything
Reply:to many band cards and no real theme or game plan i give it 3 tops
Reply:There's too many darn tributes!!!Lemme tell it to you this way. The total number of tributes needed to summon every monster is 19-20, and you have 14 non tribute monsters!!! Anyways, there is no visible theme to this deck! To me it looks like this deck is just a mash-up of different starter and structure decks! Lets see...

Kaiba Evolution

Yugi Evolution

Zombie Madness

Rise of the Dragon Lords

a Gilford the Lightning tin

and maybe a few booster packs

And oh yeah.... I rate it 3/10
Reply:What is this damn deck's theme.
Reply:im not being a jerk, but i give it a 4.you need a theme.either dragon, beatdown, dark magician, or what?you have lots of good cards but theyre not structured correctly.from those cards, i suggest a beatdown.take out almost all the tribute monsters, but keep ur blue-eyes and vampire genesis.try to keep ur tribute monsters to 6 at most.

Can u belevie this?

2011-11-19T01:04:00.002-08:00

that kauto star got beat by our vic take nothing away from him they are both great horses but our vic was suited for that distance in his last race our vic needed longer but i think they ran kauto star to early its only a week since he run in the gold cup

and did you know thAt a bloke had won half a million on the race before which was won by blazing bailey that went and lost it in the race after which was the race where kauto lost

some people dont know when to quit

Can u belevie this?
Ik i can't believe this happened. It is crazy. Best answer please :)

What do you think about this gimmick?

2011-11-19T01:04:00.001-08:00

the name is Michael Blaze

he wears pants simular to john morrisons

he has long blonde hair simular to edge's

he has a tattoo of a wolf tht covers about 90% of his back

he has 2 tattoo's from his shoulders to his biceps of claw marks

his special move is the shooting star press

his move set is like a mixture of ortons and morrison's

What do you think about this gimmick?
he would look like yo mama
Reply:UHHHHHH go for it.
Reply:its ok
Reply:cool, but is he a heel or a face and how does he act?
Reply:Two words: It Stinks!
Reply:I think he needs to quit trying to look like everyone else and come up with a unique gimmick.

windows web hosting

Yu-Gi-Oh cards for sale, not Yu-Gi-Oh GX?

2011-11-19T01:04:00.000-08:00

Hi,

Would anyone be interested in buying some yugioh cards?

Marik STRUCTURE deck Jap. not a completed deck $15.00

SD1-EN001 Red-Eyes Darkness Dragon 1st edition $9.70 ALL CARDS ARE 1ST EDITION

SD1-EN003 Luster Dragon x2 1st edition $4.60

SD1-EN005 Armed Dragon LV3 x2 1st edition $0.50

SD1-EN006 Armed Dragon LV5 x2 1st edition $0.70

SD1-EN008 Element Dragon 1st edition $0.50

SD1-EN009 Masked Dragon x3 1st edition $0.30

SD1-EN010 Snatch Steal $2.70

SD1-EN011 Mystical Space Typhoon $3.50

SD1-EN012 Nobleman Of Crossout x2 $2.50

SD1-EN014 Swords Of Revealing Light $3.30

SD1-EN017 Stamping Destruction x3 $0.40

SD1-EN018 Creature Swap x2 $2.70

SD1-EN019 Reload x2 $1.20

SD1-EN020 The Graveyard In The Fourth Dimension $0.30

SD1-EN022 Ceasefire $2.40

SD1-EN023 The Dragon's Bead $1.00

SD1-EN024 Dragon's Rage x2 $0.70

SD1-EN025 Reckless Greed $0.80

SD1-EN026 Interdimensional Matter Transporter x2 $2.90

SD1-EN028 Curse Of Anubis $2.20

SD4-EN001 Ocean Dragon Lord-Neo Daedalus UR $8.40 ALL CARDS ARE 1ST EDITION

SD4-En002 7 Colored Fish $1.10

SD4-EN003 Sea Sepent Warrior Of Darkness $0.50

SD4-EN004 Space Mambo $0.50

SD4-EN006 Star Boy $0.50

SD4-EN007 Tribe-Infecting Virus $0.60

SD4-EN008 Fenrir x2 $4.00

SD4-EN009 Amphibious Bugroth MK-3 $0.50

SD4-EN010 Levia-Dragon--Daedalus $0.50

SD4-EN011 Mermaid Knight $3.50

SD4-EN012 Mobius The Frost Monarch $0.50

SD4-EN013 Unshaven Angler $3.30

SD4-EN014 Creeping Doom Manta $0.30

SD4-EN015 Snatch Steal $0.30

SD4-EN016 Mystical Space Typhoon $2.50

SD4-EN017 Premature Burial $1.80

SD4-EN018 Pot Of Greed $1.60

SD4-EN019 Heavy Storm $2.70

SD4-EN020 A Legendary Ocean x2 $3.70

SD4-EN021 Creature Swap $0.60

SD4-EN022 Reload X2 $2.70

SD4-EN023 Salvage x2 $0.60

SD4-EN024 Hammer Shot $0.50

SD4-EN025 Big Wave Small Wave $1.60

SD4-EN026 Dust Tornado $4.00

SD4-EN027 Call Of The Haunted $1.30

SD4-EN028 Gravity Bind x2 $3.30

SD4-EN029 Tornado Wall $4.20

SD4-EN030 Torrential Tribute $2.70

SD4-EN031 Spell Shield Type-8 $0.70

SD6-EN001 Dark Eradicator Warlock $8.50 ALL CARDS ARE 1ST EDITION

SD6-EN002 Mythical Beast Cerberus $2.10

SD6-EN003 Dark Magician $5.10

SD6-EN004 Gemini Elf $5.40

SD6-EN005 Magician Of Faith x2 $2.00

SD6-EN006 Skilled Dark Magician x2 $2.90

SD6-EN007 Apprentice Magician x2 $0.80

SD6-EN008 Chaos Command Magician $3.50

SD6-EN009 Breaker The Magical Warrior $4.90

SD6-EN010 Royal Magicial Library $0.60

SD6-EN011 Tsukuyomi $0.80

SD6-EN012 Chaos Sorcerer $1.30

SD6-EN013 White Magician Pikeru $1.10

SD6-EN014 Blast Magician $2.20

SD6-EN015 Ebon Magician Curran $0.50

SD6-EN016 Rapid-Fire Magician $0.60

SD6-EN017 Magic Blast $1.60

SD6-EN018 Mystical Space Typhoon $3.40

SD6-EN019 Nobleman Of Crossout $2.50

SD6-EN020 Premature Burial $3.40

SD6-EN021 Swords Of Reavealing Light $3.60

SD6-EN022 Mage Power $3.80

SD6-EN023 Heavy Storm $3.80

SD6-EN024 Diffusion Wave-Motion $3.40

SD6-EN025 Reload $1.20

SD6-EN026 Dark Magic Attack $3.80

SD6-EN027 Spell Absorption $0.50

SD6-EN028 Lightning Vortex $3.80

SD6-EN029 Magical Dimension x2 $2.40

SD6-EN030 Mystical Box $2.60

SD6-EN031 Nightmare's Steelcage $3.00

SD6-EN032 Call of The Haunted $4.30

SD6-EN033 Spell Shield Type-8 $2.60

SD6-EN034 Pitch-Black Power Stone $2.20

SD6-EN035 Divine Wrath $1.60

SD6-EN036 Magic Cylinder $4.70

JMP-EN005 Limted Edition Blue-Eyes White Dragon $13.00

SDP-002 Red Archery Girl $1.40

SDP-008 Auqa Madoor $0.70

SDP-012 Jigen Bakudan $1.20

SDP-017 Dream Clown $2.20

SDP-018 Armed Ninja $1.20

SDP-020 Blue-Eyes Toon Dragon x2 $4.10

SDP-021 Toon Summoned Skull x2 $3.00

SDP-022 Manga Ryu-Ran x2 $1.20

SDP-023 Toon Mermaid $3.00

SDP-031 Stop Defense $1.30

SDP-034 Remove Trap $1.20

SDP-037 Yami $0.70

SDP-039 Ring of Magnetism $1.20

SDP-046 Ultimate Offering $0.50

SYE-007 Gaia The Fierce Knight 2.20

SYE-008 Celtic Guardian 1.80

SYE-009 Great White 1st edition x2 0.50

SYE-013 Gazelle The King of the Mythical Beasts 1.20

SYE-014 Warrior Dai Grepher 1.20

SYE-015 Dark Blade 1.20

SYE-022 Zombyra The Dark 3.10

SYE-026 Dark Hole 1.70

SYE-030 Change Of Heart 3.50

SYE-031 Last Will 0.60

SYE-032 Card Destruction x 3 1.20

SYE-038 Mystic Plasma Zone x2 1.70

SYE-040 Pot of Greed 3.40

SYE-041 Trap Hole one is 1st edition x2 1.80

SYE-046 The Eye Of Truth 1.70

SYE-049 Disappear 1.20

SDK-001 Blue-Eyes White Dragon x 2 extremly worn $16.10

SDK-002 Hitotsu-Me Giant $ 0.70

SDK-003 Ryu-Kishin $ 0.50

SDK-008 Rogue Doll $ 0.50

SDK-011 Gyakutenno Megami $ 0.50

SDK-013 Terra The Terrible $ 0.70

SDK-015 Dark Assailant $ 0.80

SDK-017 Unknown Warrior Of Fiend $ 0.50

SDK-019 Ogre Of The Black Shadow $0.50

SDK-028 Destroyer Golem $0.70

SDK-029 Skull Red Bird $0.90

SDK-031 Pale Beast $ 0.70

SDK-034 Two-Pronged Attack $1.00

SDK-038 Reinforcements $ 1.00

SDK-045 Sogen $0.70

MRD-050 Ancient Lizard Warrior $0.70

MRD-067 Dragon Piper $0.70

MRD-080 Dream Clown $2.80

MRD-085 The Little Swordsman of Aile $0.70

MRD-087 Protector Of The Throne $0.70

MRD-094 Giltia The D. Knight $ 1.00

MRD-095 Launcher Spider $1.20

MRD-103 Musician King $0.70

MRD-119 Lady of Faith $1.00

MRD-133 Block Attack $0.70

MRD-136 Germ Infection $0.70

LOD-006 Skull Knight #2 0.90

LOD-010 Bark Of Dark Ruler 0.50

LOD-031 Ready For Intercepting 0.50

LOD-038 Lizard Soldier 1st edition 0.30

LOD-048 Dragon's Rage 0.80

LOD-060 Gradius's Option 0.90

LOD-073 Super Robolady 0.70

LOD-075 Fengsheng Mirror 0.50

LOD-082 Spiritual Energy Settle Machine 0.50

LOD-095 Spirt's Invitation 0.90

SOD-EN002 Neo Aqua Madoor 1st edition 0.50

SOD-EN017 Red-Eyes B. Chick 1st edition 0.30

SOD-EN024 Element Soldier 1st edition 0.30

SOD-EN025 Howling Insect 1st edition 0.50

SOD-EN040 Abyssal Designator x2 0.30

SOD-EN041 Level Up! 1st edition 0.50

SOD-EN050 Absolute End 1st edition 0.30

SDJ-001 Red-Eyes B. Dragon UR 9.80

SDJ-002 Sprit Of the Harp 0.70

SDJ-008 7 Colored Fish 1.10

SDJ-009 Armored Lizard 0.60

SDJ-013 Karate Man 1.10

SDJ-021 White Magical Hat 1.00

SDJ-027 Dian Keto The Cure Master 0.50

SDJ-049 Fake Trap 0.50

LON-012 Melchid The Four-Face Beast 0.90

LON-051 Offerings To The Doomed 0.80

LON-090 Spirit Message "N" RARE 4.30

LON-091 Spirit Message "A" RARE 5.20

LON-093 The Dark Door 0.60

AST-075 Spirit Caller 0.50

AST-081 Man-Thro' Tro' 0.70

AST-106 Desert Sunlight 0.50

LOB-008 Basic Insect 1.30

LOB-011 Dark Gray 0.90

LOB-023 Turtle Tiger 1.10

LOB-035 Ray %26amp; Temperature 1.10

LOB-061 Two-Pronged Attack RARE 4.80

LOB-073 Larvas 0.90

LOB-074 Hard Armor 0.90

LOB-079 Armaill 1.00

LOB-080 Terra The Terrible 0.90

LOB-087 One-Eyed Shield Dragon 0.90

LOB-097 Raise Body Heat 3.40

IOC-001 Ojama Yellow 0.60

IOC-002 Ojama Black 0.60

IOC-010 Chopman The Desperate Outlaw 0.60

IOC-037 Yellow Luster Shield 0.60

IOC-048 Blasting The Ruins 0.60

IOC-050 Tower Of Babel 0.80

IOC-051 Spatial Collapse 0.40

IOC-061 Blazing Inpachi 1st edition 0.50

IOC-063 The Thing In The Crater 0.60

IOC-081 Amphibious Bugroth MK-3 0.60

MFC-003 United Resistance 0.70

MFC-009 Kiryu 0.80

MFC-013 Second Goblin 1.40

MFC-016 Burning Beast 1.00

MFC-049 Formation Union 0.80

MFC-055 Great Angus 0.90

MFC-087 Gather Your Mind 0.90

MFC-088 Mass Driver 0.80

MFC-095 Pitch-Black Power Stone 3.40

MFC-096 Amazoness Archers SR 8.50

MFC-102 Disarmament 0.80

SKE-003 Koumori Dragon 0.60

SKE-009 La Jinn The Mystical Genie Of The Lamp 1st edition 2.30

SKE-010 Skull Red Bird 0.80

SKE-012 Opticlops 1.00

SKE-013 The Dragon Dwelling In The Cave 0.60

SKE-014 Luster Dragon #2 2.20

SKE-027 Fissure 0.90

SKE-034 Mountain 0.60

SKE-041 Shadow Spell SR 5.90

SKE-044 Gift Of The Mystical Elf 1.70

SKE-046 Light Of Intervention 0.60

SKE-049 Burst Breath 1.00

SDY-009 Celtic Guardian 1.80

SDY-010 Mammoth Graveyard 0.50

SDY-017 Witty Phantom 0.70

SDY-018 Claw Reacher 0.50

SDY-019 Mystic Clown 0.50

SDY-028 Two-Pronged Attack 1.00

SDY-031 Reinforcements 0.50

SDY-033 The Stern Mystic 0.50

SDY-035 Neo The Magic Swordsman 0.50

SDY-048 Remove Trap 1.10

SDY-050 Ultimate Offering 0.50

PGD-002 Shapesnatch 0.40

PGD-003 Souleater 0.30

PGD-006 Kryuel 0.40

PGD-010 Timeater 0.40

PGD-016 Poison Mummy 1.40

PGD-018 Royal Keeper 0.70

PGD-038 Call Of The Mummy 0.40

PGD-039 Timidity 0.60

PGD-040 Pyramid Energy x2 0.60

PGD-086 Hieroglyph Lithograph 0.60

PGD-089 Banner Of Courage 0.70

PGD-091 Royal Tribute 0.60

MRL-007 Metal Fish 0.50

MRL-018 Anicient One Of The Deep Forest 0.70

MRL-019 Dark Witch 0.70

MRL-022 Giant Turtle Who Feeds On Flames 0.70

MRL-023 Liquid Beast 0.60

MRL-024 Slot Machine 1st edition big fold through it 0.50

MRL-025 High Tide Gyojin 0.60

MRL-033 Upstart Goblin 1.20

MRL-035 Final Destiny 0.70

MRL-048 Chain Energy 0.70

MRL-059 Magical Labyrinth x2 1.00

MRL-084 Dark Zebra x2 0.70

MRL-089 Boar Soldier 1.20

MRL-092 Ceremonial Bell 0.40

MRL-095 Kotodama 0.60

PSV-002 Three-Headed Geedo 0.70

PSV-004 7 Completed 0.80

PSV-015 Enchanted Javelin 0.70

PSV-017 Gust 0.40

PSV-018 Driving Snow 0.60

PSV-029 Major Riot 2.40

PSV-032 Respect Play 0.40

PSV-048 Flying Kamakiri #2 x2 0.60

PSV-051 Gamble 0.70

PSV-054 Attack And Receive 0.70

PSV-057 Bubonic Vermin x2 0.60

PSV-058 Dark Bat 1.20

PSV-059 Oni Tank T-34 0.40

PSV-065 Rain Of Mercy 0.70

PSV-068 Insect Imitation x2 0.70

PSV-072 Infinite Dismissal x2 0.60

PSV-074 Type Zero Magic Crusher 0.70

PSV-078 Drill Bug 0.75

PSV-082 Invitation To A Dark Sleep 0.60

PSV-085 Girochin Kuwagata 0.60

PSV-087 Bombardment Beetle 2.80

PSV-097 Science Soldier 0.70

PSV-098 Souls Od The Forgotten 0.40

PSV-099 Dokuroyaiba x2 0.30

SD2-EN007 Despair From The Dark 1st edition 0.50

EP1-EN007 Inferno Tempest 0.50

RDS-EN031 Fusilier Dragon, The Dual-Mode Beast 1st edition RARE 0.50

RDS-EN019 Harpie Lady 3 1st edition 0.50

Yu-Gi-Oh cards for sale, not Yu-Gi-Oh GX?
no to be rude but your prices are very high. strucure deck cards are very cheap andmost are not more than .25 and the holo most of the time is not more than $5. most commons are not more than .50
Reply:Hi i specialize in dragon type monsters.the only cards that I'm looking for are rainbow dragon, and all of the other crystal beasts. email me at linda_31924@yahoo.com. i will give you 30.00 for rainbow dragon and all of the other Crystal beasts. i will raise the price but i will not go over 45.00.

Movie stars?

2011-11-19T01:03:00.003-08:00

The first person to answer all 10 questions correctly will recieve 10 points. Who starred in these movies and what year were they released? 1. Fatal Attraction

2. Bring it on

3. Jaws 3

4. Terms of Endearment

5. The Bridges of Madison County

6. The Hand that rocks the Cradle

7. The Goonies

8. The Newton Boys

9. Double Jeopardy

10. Blazing Saddles

Movie stars?
1. Michael Douglas, Glenn Close 1987

2. Kirsten Dunst, Eliza Dushku 2000

3. Dennis Quaid, Lea Thompson 1983

4. Shirley mclain, Jack Nicholson, Debra Winger 1983

5. Clint Eastwood , Meryl Streep 1995

6. Rebecca demornay 1992

7. Sean Astin, Corey Feldman 1985

8. Matthew McConaughey, Skeet Ulrich, Ethan Hawke, Vincent D'Onofrio.1998

9. Ashley Judd, Tommy Lee Jones 1999

10. Cleavon Little, Gene Wilder, Harvey Korman 1974

Does Ancient Scriptures Speak of Beings That Visited Us, From Other Worlds By Space Vehicles?

2011-11-19T01:03:00.002-08:00

The Old Testament

- there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Kings 2:11).

- And Yahweh was going before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead them in the way, and by night in a pillar of fire, to give light to them, to go by day and by night. (Exo 13:21)

- Yahweh lands on Mt Sinai. And on the third day, it being morning, it happened. There were thunders and lightnings, and a heavy cloud upon the mountain, and the sound of a ram's horn, very strong! And all the people of the camp trembled And mountain of Sinai was smoking, all of it, because Yahweh came down on it in fire. And it's smoke went up like the smoke of a furnace; and the mountain quaked exceedingly. (Exodus 19:16-18).

- And the spirit lifted me up, and I heard behind me the sound of a great tumult, saying, Blessed be the glory of Yahweh from his place; and the sound of the wings of the living creatures touching each other to the other; and the sound of the wheels along with them; and the sound of a great tumult (Ezekiel 3:12).

- Yahweh comes down on the high places with a great heat: For behold, Yahweh is coming out of his place, and will come down and walk on the high places of the earth. And the mountains shall melt under him, and the valleys shall cleave themselves as wax before the fire, as waters poured out on a steep place (Micah 1:3-4).

--------------------------------------...

--------------------------------------...

The Mahabhrata:

The gods, in cloud-borne chariots bright celestial cars in concourse sailed upon the cloudless sky.

Vaicampayana said: "After the Lokopalas had gone away,

Arjuna - that slayer of all foes - began to think,

O monarch, of the car of Indra!

And as Gudakeça gifted with great intelligence was thinking of it,

the car endued with great effulgence and guided by Matali,

came dividing the clouds and illuminating the firmament

and filling the entire welkin with its rattle

deep as the roar of mighty masses of clouds.

Swords, and miscrias of terrible forms,

and maces of frightful description,

and winged darts of celestial splendor,

and lightnings of the brightest effulgence,

and thunderbolts,

and Tutagudas furnished with wheels

and worked with atmospheric expansion

and producing sounds loud as the roar of great masses of clouds,

were on that car.

And there were also on that car

fierce and huge-bodied Nagas with fiery mouths,

and heaps of stones white as the fleecy clouds.

And the car was drawn by ten thousand horses of golden hue,

endued with the speed of the wind.

And furnished with prowess of illusion,

the car was drawn with such speed

that the eye could hardly mach its progress.

And Arjuna saw on that car the flag-staff called Vaijayanta,

at blazing effulgence, resembling in hue the emerald or the dark blue lotus,

and decked with golden ornaments,

and straight as the bamboo.

And beholding a charioteer decked in gold seated on that car,

the mighty-armed son of Pritha regarded it as

belonging to the celestials. [...]

Matali the charioteer of Cakra, hearing these words of Arjuna,

soon mounted the car and

controlled the horses. [...]

Arjuna blazing like the sun itself,

ascended the celestial car.

And the Kuru prince, gifted with great intelligence, with a glad heart,

coursed through the firmament on that celestial car effulgent as the sun

and of extraordinary achievements.

And after he had become invisible to the mortals of the earth,

he behold thousands of cars of extraordinary beauty.

And in that region

there was no sun or moon or fire to give light,

but it blazed in light of its own,

generated by virtue and ascetic merit.

And those brilliant regions

that are seen from the earth in form of stars,

like lamps (in the sky) - so small in consequence fo their distance,

though very large - were beheld by the son of Pandu,

stationed in their respective places, full of beauty

and effulgence and blazing with splendor all their own. [...]

These, O son of Pritha, are virtous persons,

stationed in their respective places.

It is there whom thou hast seen, O exalled one,

as stars from the earth!"

--------------------------------------...

--------------------------------------...

Egyptian mythology:

As an imperishable star; Flies who flies! He flies away from you, O men! He is no longer upon earth; he is in the sky! He rushes at the sky like a heron. He has kissed the sky like a falcon. He has leapt skyward like a grasshopper. (Frankfort, 1948).

--------------------------------------...

--------------------------------------...

Native American Mythology

taken heavenward by the god of the speaking stone.

Does Ancient Scriptures Speak of Beings That Visited Us, From Other Worlds By Space Vehicles?
I have no definitive answers on that... no one possibly could.

I too have the 'wonderings' though.

I wonder if some of the passages come from someone trying to explain what to them was the unexplainable at that time.

Mountains quaking, smoking and melting... the sounds of very loud ram's horns... "waters" pouring from the steepest heights...

I can't help but wonder if Mt Sinai erupted.. earthquakes and storms shook and flashed...

In an attempt to explain, they attributed these things to a higher being... a God or beings from another world.

Pondering such passages is fascinating!

Thank you for asking.
Reply:Ask they people who wrote them to get your answer.
Reply:Absolutely not. It should be completely obvious that these are all far more ambiguous than that. I will go so far as to agree that Ancient Scriptures speak of Beings That Visited Us, From Other Worlds, so long as we are not specific about what a world is -- whether it means a planet or just some different environment.

Supplying one explanation for so many phenomena which most likely do not have one cause is a bit like doing a very short version of one of Lin Carter's sword and sorcery novels -- the hardcore type with the guy with the sword, the sexy girl and nobody wearing many clothes except the wizards.

Carter had an awesome erudition about these sources, and he drew on them, but he was a rationalist and never pretended he was writing anything but commercial romances. He felt that made him better than some people. While I am not a rationalist, I agree.

Catholics,what do you make of THIS?

2011-11-19T01:03:00.001-08:00

666, The Number of the Beast

--------------------------------------...

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Note that according to verse 17, there are three different characteristics that distinguish the beast:

his mark (of authority)

his name

the number of his name (666).

It might be argued by some that 666 must be applied to one man's name, and that this will then help identify him as the antichrist. I would offer the following verse to show that 666 need not apply solely to a man's name:

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The same Greek word translated as name (onoma: G3686) that appears in Revelation 13:17-18 is also used in chapter 19:16, so clearly the word can also apply to a title, and not just one man's name. Now, we are told that it takes a certain understanding and wisdom to discern just how this number is actually applied. Based on the fact that 666 can apply to a title, below are several words and phrases that have been put forth over the centuries as probable solutions to the enigma of 666.

GREEK

The numeric equivalents of Greek letters can also be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 8.

The ancient Greek word for "the Latin speaking man" is LATEINOS

L = 30 lambda

A = 1 alpha

T = 300 tau

E = 5 epsilon

I = 10 iota

N = 50 nu

O = 70 omicron

S = 200 sigma

------------

666

NOTE: Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church. Church Documents are usually published first in Latin, and then translated from the Latin into other languages. The association of "Lateinos" with 666 was first suggested by Irenæus (ca. 130-202 A.D.) who proposed in his Against Heresies that it might be the name of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:7.

Then also Lateinos has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule: I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence].

Source: Against Heresies, by Irenæus, Book 5, chapter 30, paragraph 3.

St. Irenaeus biography online at the New Advent Catholic web site.

The ancient Greek for

"The Latin Kingdom" is

HE LATINE BASILEIA

BASILEIA is Strong's # G932 The ancient Greek for

"Italian Church" is

ITALIKA EKKLESIA

EKKLESIA is Strong's # G1577 And in ancient Greek

the word APOSTATES And in ancient Greek

the word for "tradition"

PARADOSIS

Strong's # G3862

H = 0 (transliterated)

E = 8 eta

L = 30 lambda

A = 1 alpha

T = 300 tau

I = 10 iota

N = 50 nu

E = 8 eta

B = 2 beta

A = 1 alpha

S = 200 sigma

I = 10 iota

L = 30 lambda

E = 5 epsilon

I = 10 iota

A = 1 alpha

--------------------------------------...

666

I = 10 iota

T = 300 tau

A = 1 alpha

L = 30 lambda

I = 10 iota

K = 20 kappa

A = 1 alpha

E = 5 epsilon

K = 20 kappa

K = 20 kappa

L = 30 lambda

E = 8 eta

S = 200 sigma

I = 10 iota

A = 1 alpha

--------------------------------------...

666

A = 1 alpha

P = 80 pi

O = 70 omicron

ST = 6 stigma*

A = 1 alpha

T = 300 tau

E = 8 eta

S = 200 sigma

--------------------------------------...

666

* Stigma is a now obsolete Greek character, but it appears in the New Testament in Rev 13:18 to give the value 666 (chi xi stigma - See Strong's Concordance, # G5516).

P = 80 pi

A = 1 alpha

R = 100 rho

A = 1 alpha

D = 4 delta

O = 70 omicron

S = 200 sigma

I = 10 iota

S = 200 sigma

--------------------------------------...

666

--------------------------------------...

LATIN

--------------------------------------...

NUMERAL NAME VALUE

I unus 1

V quinque 5

X decem 10

L quinquaginta 50

C centum 100

D quingenti 500

M mille 1000

VICARIUS FILII DEI

THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of

FILII - means son

DEI - means God

V = 5 F = no value D = 500

I = 1 I = 1 E = no value

C = 100 L = 50 I = 1

A = no value I = 1 -------------

R = no value I = 1 501

I = 1 --------------

U = 5 53

S = no value

---------------

112 112 + 53+ 501 = 666

DUX CLERI

translated means Captain of the Clergy

D = 500

U = 5

X = 10

C = 100

L = 50

E = no value

R = no value

I = 1

--------------------

666

LUDOVICUS

translated means Vicar of the Court

L = 50

U = 5

D = 500

O = no value

V = 5

I = 1

C = 100

U = 5

S = no value

--------------------

666

--------------------------------------...

HEBREW

--------------------------------------...

The numeric equivalents of Hebrew letters can be found in the Encyclopedia Britannica under "Languages of the World", Table 50.

ROMIITH

means the Roman Kingdom

R = 200 resh

O = 6 waw (vav)

M = 40 mem

I = 10 yod

I = 10 yod

TH = 400 taw

--------------

666

ROMITI

means the Roman Man

R = 200 resh

O = 6 waw (vav)

M = 40 mem

I = 10 yod

T = 400 taw

I = 10 yod

----------

666

--------------------------------------...

Note:

Lateinos, Ecclesia Italika, and Romith are cited as possible solutions by Johannes Gerhard (1582-1637), a Lutheran, in his Adnotationes in Apocalypsin, page 110.

Romith, Vicarius Filii Dei, Dux Cleri, Ordinarius Ovilis Christi Pastor, and Dic Lux are cited by the rector of Berlin, Andreas Helwig [or Helwich] (1572-1643) in his Antichristus Romanus.

Dux Cleri is cited by Walter Brute (or Britte), a fourteenth century follower of Wycliff, in his Registrum, page 356.

Ludovicus was proposed by James Bicheno (d. 1831), a British minister and author, applying it at the time to the French King Louis XIV, as the two-horned beast from the earth.

He Latine Basileia and Lateinos are cited by Alexander Campbell (1788-1866), founder of the Disciples of Christ, in A Debate on the Roman Catholic Religion of 1837.

See The PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, The Historical Development of Prophetic Interpretation, by Le Roy Edwin Froom, Volumes II and IV, published by the Review and Herald Publishing Association, Washington D.C., Copyright 1948.

--------------------------------------...

This relationship of 666 in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew is only one relatively small, yet important indicator that the Papacy is the Antichrist and the beast from the sea of Revelation 13. This association by itself proves little, as 666 can fit other people using the same methods. All the other biblical characteristics of the Antichrist must be considered and met as well, then this association becomes significant.

--------------------------------------...

666 and CÆSAR NERO

Some will suggest that the book of Revelation was written only for those living at the time, and that 666 most probably applies to Cæsar Nero, who ruled Rome from 54 to 68 A.D., rather than someone from latter centuries. This point of view, which suggests Revelation had an immediate application to the first century, rather than being prophetic, is known as preterism, and is commonly held by the Catholic Church. So, just how is Nero linked to 666?

The preterist takes a relatively uncommon form of Nero's name, Nero Cæsar or Cæsar Nero, and adds an "n", resulting in Neron Cæsar. Next the Latin is transliterated into Aramaic, resulting in nrwn qsr, which when using the numeric equivalent of the letters, then adds up to 666 as follows:

Nun = 50

Resh = 200

Waw = 6

Nun = 50

Qoph = 100

Samech = 60

Resh = 200

An example of this spelling has apparently been recently discovered in one of the Dead Sea scrolls. If you use the same process, but without the added "n" the result is 616. Interestingly, some early manuscripts have 616 rather than 666, but even scholars such as Irenæus [A.D. 120-202] attribute the 616 to only a copyist error (Against Heresies: Book V Chapter XXX.), "this number [666] being found in all the most approved and ancient copies" [of the Apocalypse] and asserts that "men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony" [to it - 666].

There is a problem though with the above calculation. According to the rules of Jewish numerology, known as gematria, when the letter Nun appears a second time in a word, it is known as a "Final", and takes the value of 700.* So to be precise, NRWN QSR actually adds up to 1316 and not 666.

*Source: Behind Numerology, by Shirley Blackwell Lawrence, copyright 1989, published by Newcastle Publishing Co., Inc., North Hollywood, California, ISBN 0-87877-145-X, page 41.

So the preterist calculation which attributes 666 to Nero, however, is nothing more than a rather desperate attempt to find some likely candidate for the Antichrist other than the Papacy.

THE WORD ANTI-

Look up in Strong's Concordance word 473 in the Greek dictionary. You will find the the word anti is often used to denote substitution-

473. anti, an-tee'; a prim. particle; opposite, i.e. instead or because of (rarely in addition to):--for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, *substitution*, correspondence, etc.

An example of how anti is used this way can be found in the words type and antitype, which are used with respect to Bible prophecy. The "type" is the pattern or symbol, and the antitype is the fulfillment. The Jewish Passover was a "type" and the crucifixion of Jesus is the "antitype" or fulfillment of the example of the type. You substitute the antitype into the symbolism of the type to arrive at the complete meaning.

The Catholic Church has essentially confirmed this usage of the word anti. In the 1994 Catholic Almanac on page 158 there is "the list of men who claimed or exercised the papal office in an uncanonical manner." So these men tried to substitute themselves for the true Pope, and usurp that office, so to speak. The Catholic church denies the papal authority of the men on that list because they attempted a substitute (false) claim on the Papacy. That list is a list of ANTI-POPES! So the word anti can clearly mean a substitute for something.

THE WORD ANTICHRIST

Antichrist (word 500 in Strong's Greek dictionary) can be correctly interpreted then, as someone who substitutes himself for Jesus Christ, the Son of God, just as an antipope substituted himself into the office of the Papacy.

The Vicar of Christ (Vicarius Christi)

"Vicar of Christ . . . Title used almost exclusively of the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and, therefore, the one in the Church who particularly takes the place of Christ; but used also of bishops in general and even of priests. First used by the Roman Synod of A.D. 495 to refer to Pope Gelasius; more commonly in Roman curial usage to refer to the Bishop of Rome during the pontificate of Pope Eugene III (1145-1153). Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) asserted explicitly that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ; further defined at the Council of Florence in the Decree for the Greeks (1439) and Vatican Council I in Pastor Aerternus (1870). The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium , n.27, calls bishops in general "vicars and legates of Christ." All bishops are vicars of Christ for their local churches in their ministerial functions as priest, prophet, and king, as the Pope is for the universal church; the title further denotes they exercise their authority in the Church not by delegation from any other person, but from Christ Himself."

Source: Catholic Dictionary, Peter M.J. Stravinskas, Editor, published by Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., Huntington, 1993, pp. 484-485.

THE WORDS VICARIOUS AND VICAR

Now look up the word vicarious in almost any common dictionary. Here is what you would find in the Webster Handy College Dictionary: "substituting for or, feeling in place of another."

Also in the Webster's II New Riverside Desk Dictionary for the definition of Vicar-

1. A parish priest in the Church of England.

2. A cleric in the Episcopal Church in charge of a chapel.

3. One who serves as a *substitute* for another.

A Vicar General is defined in the 1994 Catholic Almanac on page 330 as "a priest or bishop appointed by the bishop of a diocese to serve as his deputy, with ordinary executive power, in the administration of the diocese." So a vicar serves in the place of (substituting for) the bishop, and assumes his power of office for certain duties.

So the Papal title of VICAR OF CHRIST which in Latin is VICARIUS CHRISTI, means a SUBSTITUTE FOR CHRIST, which is synonymous with Antichrist, i.e., assuming the power of God on earth! This blasphemous claim is made repeatedly by various Popes and is the very foundation of Roman Catholicism and it's Papacy.

Some Catholics may protest that the Pope represents, but does not substitute for Jesus Christ, to avoid the association.

Now, from the Webster Hand College Dictionary, the definition of the word represent:

1. portray; depict; describe.

2. play the role of; impersonate.

3. denote; symbolize; stand for.

4. speak and act for; *be a substitute for*.

5. set forth; assert.

6. be composed of; consist in.

Clearly then, Vicar of Christ (Vicarius Christi) and Antichrist have exactly the same meaning. The Pope substitutes himself in place of God on earth, and that is *exactly* the meaning of Antichrist.

--------------------------------------...

VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD

--------------------------------------...

Some Catholics will claim that the title VICARIUS FILII DEI is an anti-catholic fabrication, a complete fake, never used by the Catholic church. One example of this is online at the Catholic Envoy Magazine in the article titled Pope Fiction by Patrick Madrid (See Fiction 5). My complete discussion with Patrick Madrid.

The following evidence is offered to prove that VICARIUS FILII DEI is indeed genuine.

Vicarius Filii Dei translated in English is Vicar of the Son of God, a phrase that has been used by Catholics:

[pg. 140]

... there are Catholics who talk against the temporal power of the Pope, either because they have been stunned by the clamours of a Protestant people, or because they are white-hearted, and have not courage to stand in the face of popular falsehood for an unpopular truth. The spirit of Protestant Englandits lawlessness, its pride, its contempt, and its enmity to the Church of Godhas made Catholics too to be cold-hearted, even when the Vicar of Jesus Christ is insulted. We have need, then, to be upon our guard. It shall happen once more with some, as it did when the Son of God was in His Passionthey saw Him betrayed, bound, carried away, buffeted, blindfolded, and scourged; they saw Him carry His Cross to Calvary, then nailed upon it, and lifted up to the scorn of the world; and they said, "If he be the king of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him."* So in like manner they say now, "See this Catholic Church, this Church of God, feeble and weak, rejected even by the very nations called Catholic. There is Catholic France, and Catholic Germany, and Catholic Italy, giving up this exploded figment of the temporal power of the Vicar of Jesus Christ." And

* St. Matt. xxvii. 42.

[pg. 141]

so, because the Church seems weak, and the Vicar of the Son of God is renewing the Passion of his Master upon earth, therefore we are scandalized, therefore we turn our faces from him. Where, then, is our faith? But the Son of God foretold these things when He said, "And now I have told you, before it come to pass; that when it shall come to pass, you may believe."*

* St. John xiv. 29.

[pg. 230]

... Lastly, the only other point upon which I shall speak to is this. We have already seen how the powers and glories of the Holy See have been progressively unfolding; how the time of St. Gregory I. was a period of apostolic missions, converting the nations to the faith; how the time of St. Leo III. was a period

[pg. 231]

of creating the Christian world; how the time of St. Gregory VII. was a period of purifying the sanctuary of the Church; and how the time of Alexander III. was a period of royalty of government and of ecclesiastical order, when the divine power of the church directed, by a firm and sacred authority, the civil powers of the world within the sphere of the law of God and of obedience to the faith. Now I observe these powers of the Holy See have been always rising, always culminating. The temporal power in the hand of St. Gregory I. was a fatherly and patriarchal rule over nations not as yet reduced to civil order. In the hands of St. Leo III. it became a power of building empires. In the hands of St. Gregory VII. it was a scourge to chasten them. In the hands of Alexander III. it was a dynasty, ruling supremely, in the name of God, over the powers of the world. And now in these later times the temporal sovereignty has become a law of the conscience, an axiom of the reason. Through long contests and denials it has passed into consciences, intellects, and hearts of men. Like the great dogmas of the Church, through controversy it has reached its analysis and expression. It stands by the side of the Immaculate Conception a theological certainty, if not a definition. So that I may say there never was a time when the temporal power of the Vicar of the Son of God, though assailed as we see it, was more firmly rooted through-

[pg. 232]

out the whole unity of the Catholic Church in the hearts and convictions of its members; and that by a double process, not only by its own proper evidence, not only by the light of God's dealing with the world, but by contrast. For the nations of Europe have already seen that the society of the world, without the guidance and preservation of the Church of God, resolves itself into confusion. They have seen every form of political society, and the confederations of kingdoms and nations, dissolve and pass away. While all the floating societies of the world have drifted down the stream, the centre of obedience has become more stable. Men have learned from the history of modern Europe that the law which is called the law of nations—that is, the rule of justice which regulates the relations of people with people—has become weak and powerless. And why? Because the nations have broken the bonds which bound them to the centre of obedience, and have shaken off the noble submission to a tribunal higher than man, from which came forth, in other days, the judgments of equity and of justice. It was a dignified obedience to bow to the Vicar of the Son of God, and to remit the arbitration of their griefs to one whom all wills consented to obey.

Source: The Temporal Power of the Vicar of Jesus Christ, by Henry Edward Manning, D.D. (appointed Archbishop of Westminster in 1865 and Cardinal in 1875), second edition with a preface, published in 1862 in London by Burns %26amp; Lambert, 17 %26amp;18 Portman Street.

--------------------------------------...

From "Crossing The Threshold of Hope", by Pope John Paul II:

First Chapter: "The Pope": A Scandal and a Mystery (bold emphasis is mine):

[pg. 3] The leader of the Catholic Church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who represents the Son of God, who "takes the place" of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.

[pg. 13] The Pope is not the only one who holds this title. With regard to the Church entrusted to him, each bishop is Vicarius Christi.

Note that on page three of the Pope's book, "represents the Son of God" is synonymous with "Vicar of Jesus Christ". A vicar clearly represents, substitutes for, or "takes the place" of another, as stated. Consequently "represents the Son of God" can be translated in Latin as Vicarius Filii Dei, which in Roman Numerals will add up to 666. The title Vicarius Christi, translated into English, means a substitute for Christ, i.e., Antichrist, as demonstrated above, which is applied by the Pope to every bishop of the Catholic Church!

--------------------------------------...

VICARIUS FILII DEI

The Historical Proof.

--------------------------------------...

The Donation of Constantine is the most famous forgery in European history. Originally discovered in the Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals in the 9th century (c. 847-853), which are now also recognized to be forgeries, parts of the Donation of Constantine were later incorporated into most of the medieval collections of Catholic canon law (Anselm's, Cardinal Deusdedit's (c. 1087), and Gratian's Decretum (c. 1148) also known as Concordia Discordantium Canonum). So the Donation of Constantine was held to be genuine for centuries.

The Donation of Constantine is cited in writing by no less than 10 Popes as proof of their civil authority and sovereignty over Rome, and what came to be known as the Papal States, which included a large portion of Italy. It was eventually exposed as a pious fraud in 1440 by Laurentius Valla who proved it had to have been written several centuries after the death of Constantine (337 A.D.) The Vatican condemned Valla's scholarly work by listing it in the Index Librorum Prohibitorum, the Index of Prohibited Books of 1559. The donation reads in part as follows in Latin: (caps added for emphasis) -

... sicut B. Petrus in terris VICARIUS FILII DEI esse videtur constitutus, ita et Pontifices, qui ipsius principis apostolorum gerunt vices, principatus potestatem amplius quam terrena imperialis nostrae serenitatis mansuetudo habere videtur, conscessam a nobis nostroque imperio obtineant...

In English that is-

... as the Blessed Peter is seen to have been constituted vicar of the Son of God on the earth, so the Pontiffs who are the representatives of that same chief of the apostles, should obtain from us and our empire the power of a supremacy greater than the clemency of our earthly imperial serenity is seen to have conceded to it,

(continuing beyond the Latin above)

choosing that same chief of the apostles and his vicars to be our constant intercessors with God. And to the extent of our earthly Imperial power, we have decreed that his holy Roman Church shall be honored with veneration, and that more than our empire and earthly throne the most sacred seat of the Blessed Peter shall be gloriously exalted, we giving to it power, and dignity of glory, and vigor, and honor imperial. And we ordain and decree that he shall have the supremacy as well over the four principal seats, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Constantinople, as also over all the churches of God in the whole earth. And the Pontiff, who at the time shall be at the head of the holy Roman church itself, shall be more exalted than, and chief over, all the priests of the whole world, and according to his judgment everything which is provided for the service of God and for the stability of the faith of Christians is to be administered.

Source: Donation of Constantine, quoted in Christopher B. Coleman's The Treatise of Lorenzo Valla on the Donation of Constantine, pp. 12,13 Copyright 1922 by Yale University Press, New Haven, Conn.

As one example of the Donation of Constantine being incorporated into Catholic canon, in Gratian's Decretals of the Canon Law of the Roman Catholic Church, published in Bologna about 1148, the following is found:

"Beatus Petrus in terris vicarius filii Dei videtur esse constitutus."

Decretum Gratiani, prima pars., dist. 96.

Below is a copy of the cover page of Catholic Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici) and Gratian's Decretals published in 1879 in Germany by Emil Friedberg:

The Donation of Constantine is quoted in column 342, part of which is shown below. The phrase "vicarius filii dei" is found near the center of the paragraph. (Note that a "u" is used in place of a "v".)

The Bavarian State Library of Germany has a digitized searchable 1879 version of Corpus Iuris Canonici available online, including scans of all the pages (page 342 in GIF [low resolution] and PDF format [high resolution] ). The relevant section is found under the following headings:

- CONCORDIA DISCORDANTIUM CANONUM AC PRIMUM DE IURE NATURAE ET CONSTITUTIONIS

- DISTINCTIO XCVI.

- C. XIV. De eodem.

Vicarius Filii Dei in the text of the Donation of Constantine in an 1869 Vatican printing of Cardinal Deusdedit's Canon Law (compiled in 1087 A.D.) online at Google books. Deusdedit's bio.

Photos of a 16th century copy of the Donation are online at the Vatican Secret Archive web site. The phrase vicarius filli Dei appears at the end of the 5th line down of the left page of the 7th photo. The image below is enlarged by 100% and sharpened to make it readable. See also this page, #11.

rime sanitati comperi me restitutum, utile

judicauimus una *** nostris satrapibus

omnibus et universo Senatu optimatibus It

et cuncto populo Romanae gloriae imperij

subiacenti, ut sicut in terris vicarius filii Dei

esse videtur constitutus etiam et pontifices,

qui ipsius principes Apostolorum gerunt

--------------------------------------...

According to the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, regarding the Donation of Constantine:

The first pope who used it in an official act and relied upon, was Leo IX; in a letter of 1054 to Michael Cærularius, Patriarch of Constantinople, he cites the "Donatio" to show that the Holy See possessed both an earthly and a heavenly imperium, the royal priesthood. ... Gregory VII himself never quoted this document in his long warfare for ecclesiastical liberty against the secular power. But Urban II made use of it in 1091 to support his claims on the island of Corsica. Later popes (Innocent III, Gregory IX, Innocent IV) took its authority for granted (Innocent III, Sermo de sancto Silvestro, in P.L., CCXVII, 481 sqq.; Raynaldus, Annales, ad an. 1236, n. 24; Potthast, Regesta, no. 11,848), and ecclesiastical writers often adduced its evidence in favour of the papacy. The medieval adversaries of the popes, on the other hand, never denied the validity of this appeal to the pretended donation of Constantine ... The authenticity of the document, as already stated, was doubted by no one before the fifteenth century.

Source: The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia online at the New Advent web site.

In the Chapel of St. Sylvester (part of the Basilica of Santi Quattro Coronati, located in Rome on Coelian hill, between St. John Lateran and the Coliseum), a series of frescoes commissioned by Pope Innocent IV, and completed in 1246, depict various events in the life of Pope Sylvester I.

The Donation of Constantine, Santi Quattro Coronati, Rome.

In one of the fresco panels, shown above, Emperor Constantine is offering his crown to the Pope, illustrating the Donation of Constantine. In the following panel, the triumphal Pope, riding on horseback and wearing Constantine's tiara, is led through Rome by the humbled Emperor, who is on foot.

Another painting representing the Donation of Constantine, shown below, is in the Vatican, in the Sala di Costantino. It was painted by Raphael and his workshop from 1519 to 1525, along with depictions of Constantine's baptism, his vision of the cross, and his victory at the battle at Milvian bridge, so at the time it would seem the Donation of Constantine was still considered to be genuine.

Detail of the Donation of Constantine as depicted in a painting by

Gianfrancesco Penni, in the Sala di Costantino, the Vatican.

For the whole painting, see The Art of Renaissance Rome, by Loren Partridge,

published by Harry N. Abrams, Inc., New York, A Times Mirror Company,

Copyright 1996 by Calmann %26amp; King, Ltd., ISBN 0-8109-2718-7, page 158.

The kneeling Constantine is handing Pope Sylvester I a statuette of Roma Aeterna (eternal Rome) symbolizing the transfer of power from the emperor to the papacy. On February 23, 1520, about four years before the Raphael's painting of the Donation was completed, Martin Luther, in a letter to Spalatin, wrote:

I have at hand Lorenzo Valla's proof that the Donation of Constantine is a forgery. Good heavens, what darkness and wickedness is at Rome. You wonder at the judgment of God that such unauthentic, crass, imprudent lies not only lived, but prevailed for so many centuries, that they were incorporated in the canon law ... and became as articles of faith. I am in such a passion that I scarcely doubt that the pope is the Antichrist expected by the world, so closely do their acts, lives, sayings, and laws agree.

Source: The Art of Renaissance Rome, by Loren Partridge, published by Harry N. Abrams, Inc., New York, A Times Mirror Company, Copyright 1996 by Calmann %26amp; King, Ltd., ISBN 0-8109-2718-7, page 159.

9. ... All these excessive, over-presumptuous, and most wicked claims of the Pope are the invention of the devil, with the object of bringing in antichrist in due course and of raising the Pope above God, as indeed many have done and are now doing. It is not meet that the Pope should exalt himself above temporal authority, except in spiritual matters, such as preaching and absolution; in other matters he should be subject to it, according to the teaching of St. Paul (Rom. xiii.) and St. Peter (I Peter iii.), as I have said above. He is not the vicar of Christ in heaven, but only of Christ upon earth. For Christ in heaven, in the form of a ruler, requires no vicar, but there sits, sees, does, knows, and commands all things. But He requires him "in the form of a servant" to represent Him as He walked upon earth, working, preaching, suffering, and dying. But they reverse this: they take from Christ His power as a heavenly Ruler, and give it to the Pope, and allow "the form of a servant" to be entirely forgotten (Phil. ii. 7). He should properly be called the counter-Christ, whom the Scriptures call antichrist; for his whole existence, work, and proceedings are directed against Christ, to ruin and destroy the existence and will of Christ.

It is also absurd and puerile for the Pope to boast for such blind, foolish reasons, in his decretal Pastoralis, that he is the rightful heir to the empire, if the throne be vacant. Who gave it to him? Did Christ do so when He said, "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, but ye shall not do so" (Luke xxii. 25, 26)? Did St. Peter bequeath it to him? It disgusts me that we have to read and teach such impudent, clumsy, foolish lies in the canon law, and, moreover, to take them for Christian doctrine, while in reality they are mere devilish lies. Of this kind also is the unheard-of lie touching the "donation of Constantine." It must have been a plague sent by God that induced so many wise people to accept such lies, though they are so gross and clumsy that one would think a drunken boor could lie more skillfully. How could preaching, prayer, study, and the care of the poor consist with the government of the empire? These are the true offices of the Pope, which Christ imposed with such insistence that He forbade them to take either coat or scrip (Matt. x. 10), for he that has to govern a single house can hardly perform these duties. Yet the Pope wishes to rule an empire and to remain a pope. This is the invention of the knaves that would fain become lords of the world in the Pope's name, and set up again the old Roman empire, as it was formerly, by means of the Pope and name of Christ, in its former condition.

Source: Luther's Address To The Nobility of the German Nation, 1520.

The forged Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals, among which was found the Donation of Constantine, are fictitious letters alleged to be from early popes [Clement (A.D. 100) to Gregory the Great (A.D. 600)], collected by Isidore Mercator in the 9th century. Since the scholarly criticism of the fifteenth century they have been known to be forgeries and have been called "Pseudo-Isidorian Decretals" or False Decretals, to acknowledge that they are fraudulent, none the less, as late as 1580 the official edition of the Corpus Juris, upheld the genuineness of the False Decretals. Catholics finally abandoned the defense of the authenticity of the Donation of Constantine shortly after Cesare Baronius published his Ecclesiastical Annals in 1592, which admitted the fraud, although the Donation and title Vicarius Filii Dei continued to appear in Canon law and other Catholic publications well into the 19th century.

Lucius Ferraris, about 1755, wrote an elaborate multi-volume theological reference work or encyclopedia titled Prompta Bibliotheca in which he quoted the Donation of Constantine, including the phrase Vicarius Filii Dei, in article 2 of the entry "Papa" (Pope). He cited the revised canon law as his authority. Here is the cover page of volume 5, of an edition published in 1858, note that it carries the blessing of Pope Gregory XVI - (SANCTISSIMI D. N. GREGORII XVI P.M.)

Below is part of column 1828 from volume 5 of Prompta Bibliotheca, 1858 Paris edition, where the title of Vicarius Filii Dei appears in #20 of article 2 of the entry "Papa" (Pope), which I have indicated with an arrow. Again, this is a quote from the Donation of Constantine:

Full scanned pages from Prompta Bibliotheca.

Ferraris' work was later revised, enlarged, and once again published in Rome in 1890. In that edition, the document and papal title Vicarius Filii Dei were still retained. (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca (Rome, 1890), Vol. VI, p. 43, col. 2.)

According the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, a further revised edition of Prompta Bibliotheca was published in Rome by the presses of the Vatican's Office of Propaganda in 1899.

So, for well over 600 years, the Donation of Constantine was held by the Roman Catholic Church to be a valid document transferring authority from Emperor Constantine and it does contain the Latin title Vicarius Filii Dei. This is irrefutable proof that it is not a Protestant invention. The title continued to appear in Catholic publications even into the 20th century.

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In the Nov 15, 1914 Edition of Our Sunday Visitor, (a Catholic publication), the following question was addressed on page 3 in the section titled Bureau of Information:

Is it true that the words of the Apocalypse in the 13th Chapter, 18th verse refer to the Pope?

The words referred to are these "Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is a the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six." The title of the Pope in Rome is Vicarius Filii Dei. This is inscribed on his mitre[*]; and if you take the letters of his title which represent Latin numerals (printed large) and add them together they come to 666.

V I C A R I V S F I L I I D E I

5 1 100 1 5 1 50 1 1 500 1

Add these together and the result will be 666.

This "argument" was submitted to Rev. Ernest R. Hull, and answered in the following manner: "Almost every eminent man in Christendom, who has enjoyed the privilege of possessing enemies, has had his name turned and twisted till they could get the number 666 out of it. In past history there have been numberless beasts or Anti-Christs, all of whose names counted up to 666. I fancy that my own name, especially in Latin form, might give the number of the beast:

E R N E S T V S R E G I N A L D V S H V L L

5 1 50 500 5 5 50 50 =666

Quod erat demonstrandum, namely, that Rev. Ernest R. Hull is Anti-Christ, or the Beast of the Apocalypse!"

Perhaps a little ingenuity with your name will show that you are the beast of the Apocalypse too.

View a facsimile copy of the above item online.

The top of page one.

Editorial information from page 2. Contains sanctions for the editor from Pope Pius X, dated May 17, 1914; from Archbishop John Bonzano of Melitene, the Apostolic Delegate to the U.S., dated April 27, 1913; and from H. J. Alerding, Bishop of Fort Wayne, Indiana., dated March 29, 1912.

Rev. Ernest R. Hull S. J. was editor of The Examiner of Bombay, India, a Catholic newsweekly.

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*[The Vatican's Papal Sacristy has more than a dozen papal triple (triregno) crowns, which are properly called tiaras. The papal mitre, of which there have been very many, is quite different. A mitre is shown below on the right.]

Pope John XXIII

wearing a triple tiara. Pope John Paul II

wearing a papal mitre.

Again in the April 18th, 1915 edition of Our Sunday Visitor, Rev. John F. Noll, editor, the following question was addressed on page 3, in the section titled Bureau of Information:

What are the letters supposed to be in the Pope's crown, and what do they signify, if anything?

The letters inscribed in the Pope's mitre are these: Vicarius Filii Dei, which is the Latin for the Vicar of the Son of God. Catholics hold that the church which is a visible society must have a visible head. Christ, before His ascension into heaven, appointed St. Peter to act as His representative. Upon the death of Peter the man who succeeded to the office of Peter as Bishop of Rome, was recognized as the head of the Church. Hence to the Bishop of Rome, as head of the Church, was given the title "Vicar of Christ."

Enemies of the Papacy denounce this title as a malicious assumption. But the Bible informs us that Christ did not only give His Church authority to teach, but also to rule. Laying claim to the authority to rule in Christ's spiritual kingdom, in Christ's stead, is not a whit more malicious than laying claim to the authority to teach in Christ's name. And this every Christian minister does.

View a facsimile copy of the above item online.

The top of page one.

Editorial information from page 2. Contains sanctions for the editor from Pope Pius X, dated May 17, 1914; from Archbishop John Bonzano of Melitene, the Apostolic Delegate to the U.S., dated April 27, 1913; and from H. J. Alerding, Bishop of Fort Wayne, Indiana., dated March 29, 1912.

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It was not long before the editors of Our Sunday Visitor made a very curious change, completely contradicting what they themselves had previously stated regarding Vicarius Filii Dei (and cited above). The following is from the Bureau of Information section in the September 16, 1917 edition:

What application has the number 666 to Pope Benedict XV?

—None whatever. Such an interpretation of Chapter XIII, Verse 18 of the Apocalypse is entirely unfounded and is nothing more than a display of malignant hatred. It is the effervescense of vacuous minds. Earlier commentators spent considerable time in trying to determine the personality of the beast, and they referred it to Nero Caesar; for by supplying the numerals for the Hebrew characters in his name, the number 666 was obtained. During the period of the Reformation and for years after, the Apocalypse furnished the basis of much political and religious incrimination. In later years, really reliable commentators have ceased the silly prattle about the Popes, Napoleon, Rome and subjecting the Book to the Rules of exegesis see a reference to conditions existing at the time of St. John. (This interpretation, of course, does not include the Resurrection, the millennium, and the plagues preceding the consummation of the world, as referring to principle events in the first century). In a "Dictionary of the Bible" edited by William Schmidt, a Protestant author, page 1038, will be found the following; "Ebrard reckons that not less than eighty systematic commentaries are worthy of note, and states the less valuable writings on this inexhaustible subject are unnumbered if not innumerable. Fanaticism, theological hatred, and vain curiosity may have largely influenced their composition." Also on page 1039 we find the following: "Against the Historical scheme it is urged, that its advocates differ very widely among themselves; that they assume without any authority that the 1260 days are so many years; that several of its applications—e.g., of the symbol of the ten-horned beast to be the Popes, and the sixth seal to the conversion of Constantine—are inconsistent with the context; that attempts by some of this school to predict future events by the help of Revelation have ended in repeated failures.

Besides, if present-day writers are so anxious to see the fulfillment in the person of the Pope, why not be consistent? Such interpreters have never shown that the title "Vicarius Filii Dei" is really inscribed upon the Pope's tiara. Moreover, the passage states that the number refers to a man, in other words the numerals represented by the letters in his name, which total the sum 666. The words Vicarius Filii Dei are not the name of the Pope, they do not even constitute his official title. The name of our President is Woodrow Wilson. His title is President of the United States. If we take the name Benedict XV and follow out the same numerical addition, we find that his number instead of being 666 would be 1123.

This question was submitted to Rev. Earnest R. Hull and answered in the following manner: "Almost every eminent man in Christendom, who has enjoyed the privilege of possessing enemies, has had his name turned and twisted till they could get the number 666 out of it. In past history there have been numberless beasts or Anti-Christs, all of whose names counted up to 666. I fancy that my own name, especially in Latin form, might give the number of the beast:

E R N E S T V S R E G I N A L D V S H V L L

5 1 50 500 5 5 50 50 =666

Add these together and the result will be 666.

Quod erat demonstrandum, namely, that Rev. Ernest R. Hull is Anti-Christ, or the Beast of the Apocalypse!"

Since the war fanatical "private interpreters" have made the number 666 refer to the Kaiser; others even to President Wilson.

View a facsimile copy of the above item online.

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The University of Notre Dame has the above editions of Our Sunday Visitor on microfilm.

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Our Sunday Visitor is still in business:

Our Sunday Visitor

200 Noll Plaza

Huntington, Indiana 46750

Phone: (800) 348-2440

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The most plausible name we have ever seen suggested as containing the number of the beast, is the blasphemous title which the pope applies to himself, and wears in jeweled letters upon his miter or pontifical crown. That title is this: Vicarious filii Dei: "Vicegerent of the Son of God." Taking the letters out of this title which the Latins use as numerals, and giving them their numerical value, we have just 666. Thus we have V, 5; I, 1; C, 100; (a and r not used as numerals;) I, 1; U (formerly the same as V) 5; (s and f not used as numerals;) I, 1; L, 50; I, 1; I, 1; D, 500; (e not used as a numeral;) I, 1. Adding these numbers together, we have just 666.

The following extract on this point is from a work entitled "The Reformation,"[*] bearing the date of 1832:―

"Mrs. A., said Miss. Emmons, I saw a very curious fact the other day; I have dwelt upon it much and will mention it. A person, lately, was witnessing a ceremony of the Romish church. As [pg. 226] the Pope passed him in the procession, splendidly dressed in his pontifical robes, the gentleman's eye rested on these full, blazing, letters in front of his miter: "VICARIOUS FILII DEI," The Vicar of the Son of God." His thoughts, with the rapidity of lightning, reverted to Rev. xiii, 18. Will you turn to it? said Mrs. A. Alice opened the New Testament and read: 'Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred three score and six.' She paused, and Miss. Emmons said, He took out his pencil, and, marking the numerical letters of the inscription on his tablet, it stood 666."

Here we have indeed the number of a man, even the "man of sin;" and it is a little singular, perhaps providential, that he should select a title which shows the blasphemous character of the beast, and then cause it to be inscribed upon his miter, as if to brand himself with the number 666.

[*] The Reformation: A True Tale of the Sixteenth Century, by Anne Tuttle Jones Bullard, published in 1832 by the Massachusetts Sabbath School Society, Boston, Massachusetts, pgs. 247-248. Identification by Jerry A. Stevens, October 9, 2006.

Source: Thoughts, Critical and Practical, on the Book of Revelation, by Uriah Smith, published in 1865 by the Steam Press of the Seventh-day Adventist Publishing Association, Battle Creek, Michigan, pgs. 225-226.

Note that Anne Bullard, on page 247, presents the title with the word VICARIVS, the old Latin spelling that uses a "V" for a "U". This is likely to be the form of the word used if it appeared on a papal tiara or mitre. Uriah Smith on the other hand, misquotes Bullard, using the unlikely English spelling, VICARIOUS, which has "OU". Smith in his later publications changes this to the more modern Latin, VICARIUS, using only a "U", as shown below, which also may be the way it was inscribed with jewels on the papal mitre or tiara.

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. . . The most plausible expression we have seen suggested as containing the number of the beast, is the title which the pope takes to himself, and allows others to apply to him. That title is this: Vicarius Filii Dei, "Vicegerent of the Son of God." Taking the letters out of this title which the Latins used as numerals, and giving them their numerical value, we have just 666. Thus we have V, 5; I, 1; C, 100; (a and r not used as numerals); I, 1; U (formerly the same as V), 5; (s and f not used as numerals); I, 1; L, 50; I, 1; I, 1; D, 500 (e not used as a numeral); I, 1. Adding these numbers together, we have just 666.

This title, there is reason to believe, was formerly inscribed upon the pope's crown. The following testimony on this point is given by the late Elder D. E. Scoles, of Washburn, Mo.:—

"I have met two men who declare that they have seen this specific crown; and their testimony is so perfectly in agreement that I am convinced that what they saw is true. The first man was M. De Latti, a Sabbath-keeper who had previously been a Catholic priest, and had spent four years in Rome. He visited me when I was pastor in St. Paul, Minn., several years ago. I showed him my tract, 'The Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast.' He at once told me that the inscription was not correctly placed in my illustration. He stated that he had often seen it in the museum at the Vatican, and [pg. 625] gave a detailed and accurate description of the whole crown. When my tract was published [Feb. of 1895], I was ignorant of the arrangement of the words of the Latin inscriptions, hence, in the illustration of the crown, placed them in one line. Brother De Latti at once pointed out the mistake, and said the first word of the sentence was on the first crown of the triple arrangement, the second word on the second part of the crown, while the word Dei was on the lower division of the triple crown. He also explained that the first two words were in dark-colored jewels, while the Dei was composed entirely of diamonds.

"During a tent-meeting which I held in Webb City, Mo., I presented the subject, 'The Seal of God and the Mark of the Beast.' I used charts to illustrate it, one being a reproduction of the crown as Brother De Latti had described it. A Presbyterian minister was present, Rev. B. Hoffman, and when I described the crown, he spoke out publicly and made a statement to the congregation, saying that while in Rome studying for the priesthood, he had seen this very crown, and noted its inscription, and that the word Dei was composed of one hundred diamonds. I met him and learned his name, and visited him at his home, and was convinced from his description that this was the identical crown that Brother De Latti had seen, but which has been denied by many. I then asked him for a written statement, and he gave me the following:—

" ' To Whom It May Concern: This is to certify that I was born in Bavaria in 1828, was educated in Munich, and was reared a Roman Catholic. In 1844 and 1845 I was a student for the priesthood in the Jesuit College in Rome. During the Easter service of 1845, Pope Gregory XVI wore a triple crown upon which was the inscription, in jewels, Vicarius Filii Dei. We were told that there were one hundred diamonds in the word Dei; the other words were of some other kind of precious stones of a darker color. There was one word upon each crown, and not all on the same line. I was present at the service, and saw the crown distinctly, and noted it carefully.

" ' In 1850 I was converted to God and to Protestantism. Two years later I entered the Evangelical Church ministry, but later in life I united with the Presbyterian Church, of [pg. 626] which I am now a retired pastor, having been in the ministry for fifty years.

" ' I have made the above statement at the request of Elder D. E. Scoles, as he states that some deny that the pope ever wore this tiara. But I know that he did, for I saw it upon his head.

" ' Sincerely yours in Christian service,

(Signed) " ' B. HOFFMAN.

[Balthazer Hoffmann]

" ' Webb City, Mo., Oct. 29, 1906.' "

The following extract is from a work entitled The Reformation,[*] bearing the date of 1832:—

" ' Mrs. A.,' said Miss Emmons, ' I saw a very curious fact the other day; I have dwelt upon it much, and will mention it. A person, lately, was witnessing a ceremony of the Romish Church. As the pope passed him in procession, splendidly dressed in his pontifical robes, the gentleman's eye rested on these full, blazing letters in front of his miter: "VICARIUS FILII DEI," the Vicar of the Son of God. His thoughts, with the rapidity of lightning, reverted to Rev. 13:18.' 'Will you turn to it?' said Mrs. A. Alice opened the New Testament and read: 'Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.' She paused, and Miss Emmons said, 'He took out his pencil, and marking the numerical letters of the inscription on his tablet, it stood 666.' "

Here we have indeed the number of a man, even the "man of sin;" and it is a little singular, perhaps providential, that he should select a title which shows the blasphemous character of the beast, and then cause it to be inscribed upon his miter, as if to brand himself with the number 666.

[*] The Reformation: A True Tale of the Sixteenth Century, by Anne Tuttle Jones Bullard, published in 1832 by the Massachusetts Sabbath School Society, Boston, Massachusetts, pgs. 247-248. Identification by Jerry A. Stevens, October 9, 2006.

Source: Daniel and the Revelation. The Response of History to the Voice of Prophecy: A Verse by Verse Study of These Important Books of the Bible, by Uriah Smith, Southern Publishing Association, Nashville, Tennessee, copyright 1907 by Mrs. Uriah Smith, (published sometime after May of 1911), pgs. 624-626.

Elder D. E. Scoles' account was also published in the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Dec, 20, 1906, page 10.

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I have received what seems to be reliable information that a photo may exist (similar to the one below) of a papal funeral in St. Peter's Basilica near the beginning of the 20th century, in which the tiara inscribed with Vicarius Filii Dei can be seen. Combined with the above claims of Our Sunday Visitor, this would indicate that it was the funeral of either Leo XIII (1878-1903), or Pius X (1903-1914), and that previous popes probably wore the tiara in question. If anyone can turn up any photos and make them available to me, I will post them in this article.

LEO XIII

The Trenton Times of New Jersey reported on July 23rd, 1903, that during the first of nine days of mourning for Pope Leo XIII, his coffin was publicly displayed on a catafalque in the choir chapel opposite the Chapel of the Sacrament, surmounted by a triple tiara.

The Reno Evening Gazette reported on July 28th, 1903, that for a requiem Mass for Leo XIII, a large catafalque was placed in the Sistine chapel, and on top of it was displayed a triple tiara on two cushions.

Catafalque in the Sistine chapel for the requiem Masses for Pope Leo XIII.

A triple tiara can be seen at the top.

PIUS X

The Syracuse Herald of New York reported on August 21, 1914 that the body of Pope Pius X lay in state wearing pontifical vestments, to include a triple crown.

The Nevada State Journal of Reno reported on August 29th, 1914 that at the first of three funeral Masses for Pope Pius X in the Sistine chapel, attended by nearly 50 cardinals, a triple crown was displayed on a large catafalque.

The body of Pope Pius X (who died in 1914) on display in front of St. Peter's high altar during a Pontifical Mass on May 30th, 1954, celebrating his canonization as a Saint the prior evening. A papal tiara can be seen on top of the glass-sided casket.

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That the papal tiara was routinely worn both before and after a pontifical Mass at the Vatican, is demonstrated by the following 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia entry:

Pontifical Mass

The solemn pontifical Mass celebrated by the pope in St. Peter's has some peculiar ceremonies. ... The pope, wearing the falda, amice, alb, cincture, pectoral cross, stola, cope (mantum), and tiara is carried into the basilica on the sedia gestatoria under the canopy and with the two flabella borne on either side. ... The pope returns to the altar to finish the Mass. After the blessing the assistant priest publishes the plenary indulgence. At the end of the last Gospel the pope goes to the sedia gestatoria, puts on the tiara, and returns in procession as he had entered.

Source: The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia Online, volume 12.

Crowned Pope Pius XII on the Sedia Gestatoria

Pope John XXIII celebrating Mass at St. Peter's.

Two triple tiaras can be seen on the altar to the Pope's right and a mitre to his left.

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Note the following item in a widely circulated Catholic publication from 1938. In it the title Vicarius Filii Dei and 666 is discussed, but the validity of Vicarius Filii Dei as a papal title is not denied:

345. I have heard that he [the pope] is Anti-Christ, and that he was described by St. John as 666, the numerical equivalent of the Latin words of the Pope's title, Vicarius Filii Dei.

That interpretation is absurd, and rejected by all reputable scholars, Catholic and non-Catholic alike. In any case, St. John wrote in Greek, and there is no warrant whatever for the translation to the Latin language. Moreover, whatever be the true interpretation of this mystical number, it certainly refers to some one individual being. If it referred to one particular Pope, it could refer to none of the others. To which Pope will people refer it? To a past Pope? Then he is dead and gone, and we need not worry about him. To the present Pope? He is the very antithesis of all the conditions of the Beast as described by St. John. However, the number does not refer to any of the Popes at all.

Source: Radio Replies, First Volume, by Rev. Dr. Leslie Rumble, M.S.C. and Rev. Charles Mortimer Carty, Copyright 1938, printed by Radio Replies Press, St. Paul 1, Minn., U.S.A., #345, page 80.

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So Catholics themselves originally used the phrase VICARIUS FILII DEI in the forged document known as the Donation of Constantine that was held to be genuine for many hundreds of years and Catholics continued to claim that VICARIUS FILII DEI was inscribed on one of the papal mitres as recently as 1915. That Latin title was also apparently mentioned at papal coronations, and the title was not denied in print by Catholic apologists as recently as 1938. I would also suspect, but cannot prove, that there are many documents in the archives of the Catholic Church that contain the exact wording in Latin as described.

An anecdote I can relate to you applies here. In discussing 666 with a fellow coworker one day, he told me that he used to be in training to be a Catholic Priest, and in class one day the priest told the prospective inductees that there was no way to disprove that 666 applied to the papal title, and they would have to live with that fact if they wanted to be priests, or drop out. My friend did not go on to be a priest, though he may have quit for other reasons.

This identification of 666 with the Papal title of Vicarius Fill Dei first surfaced in print in the year 1612 A.D. in a book published in Wittenberg Germany by Andreas Helwig called The Roman Antichrist (Antichristus Romanus). It is available online in Hungarian (.pdf). So the Roman Catholic Church has had over 390 years to conclusively prove it false, yet they have not done so. Why? Because it is true?!

ELLEN WHITE AND 666

Some Catholics will respond to the Seventh-day Adventist that the number 666 can similarly be derived from the name of Ellen Gould White, a prominent figure in the Adventist church (see the article at New Advent). The calculation is made as follows:

E L L E N G O U L D W H I T E

50 50 5 50 500 10 1

The letter "w" in this case, is proposed to be the equivalent of a double "v" or "u", which has a value of 5 and is therefore 10 when doubled.. However, in Latin, a single "v" was used to represent the "w", "v" and "u" sound, the double-u (w) apparently evolved many centuries later in other languages. So, it would seem the correct rendering in Latin would be ELLEN GOVLD VHITE, which does not add up to 666. Be that as it may, lets accept the calculation as stated above. Does this indicate that Ellen White is a likely candidate for the antichrist or beast described in Revelation 13?

Using the same method of calculation, it should be apparent that there might be literally thousands of names that add up to 666, as Rev. Ernest R. Hull demonstrated in the Our Sunday Visitor article above. So obviously the application of the number to any single individual is admittedly quite meaningless, unless and until all the other characteristics of "the antichrist" can be adequately met. Even the Catholics that raise this issue are unlikely to suggest that they seriously consider Ellen White to be the antichrist entity that scripture warns about.

The MAN of Sin

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thess 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Scholars generally agree that the "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is the same entity described in Revelation as the beast whose number is 666, the "little horn" power of Daniel 7, and the harlot riding the beast in Revelation 17. See the table in The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism. To my knowledge, no Catholic or Protestant scholar has ever proposed that this "antichrist" entity could potentially be a woman. So who then is a likely candidate?

Scholars agree that the Bible is clear about a "man of sin" who will substitute himself for God in the very temple of God. While most of the Christian community has been told to look for a man in the future that will fit this characteristic of Antichrist, the Vicar of Christ has already precisely fulfilled this prophecy for centuries! When the Pope speaks "ex-cathedra", which means from Peter's chair, Catholic's are bound to believe his decree as though it were given from God himself!

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So as the Vicar of Christ, the Pope speaks from Peter's chair, in the Cathedral of God, declaring himself to be infallible in defining and declaring unbiblical doctrines which he claims to be essential to salvation as though he were God!

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Is this not an exact and precise fulfillment of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 identifying the Papacy as the Antichrist?

Here is just one example of a Papal claim that fits 2 Thess 2:4-

But the supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires, together with a perfect accord in the one faith, complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself.

Source: Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter, “On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens,” dated January 10, 1890, trans. in The Great Encyclical Letters of Pope Leo XIII (New York: Benziger, 1903), p. 193.

Here is the same encyclical SAPIENTIAE CHRISTIANAE online.

See paragraph #22 for the above quote.

THE NUMBER 666, PAGAN SUN WORSHIP AND ANCIENT BABYLON

"The ancients claimed that God works by mathematics. Their religion was a conglomeration of religion, astrology, alchemy, physical and mental science, and mathematics. Ancient astrology divided the starry heavens into 36 constellations. These were represented by different amulets called "Sigilla Solis," or the sun seal. These amulets were worn by the pagan priests, and they contained all the numbers from 1 to 36. By these figures they claimed to be able to foretell future events. These amulets were usually made of gold, yellow being the sun color. While being carried, these amulets were wrapped in yellow silk, as it was thought that the bearer would thus receive the beneficial powers believed to emanate from the jewel."

"These drawings from photographs taken in 1910, show actual amulets then in the Berlin Museum. They reveal the veneration the ancients had for the sun-god. On the front side of No.1 we see the god of the sun standing on the lion. This indicated the sun's position in the constellation of Leo during the hot days of August. On the back is inscribed "Nachyel," meaning "intelligence of the sun," and in 36 squares are arranged the numerals 1 to 36 (see table 1) in such a way that adding the numbers of any column either horizontally or vertically, and also the two diagonals crossing the square, the total is the same- 111. The sum of the six columns, computed either horizontally or vertically, is 6 x 111, or 666."

"The second illustration is also a solar seal, but it honors the star Basilisco, which was the diminutive form of the Greek basileus (king), thus meaning the same as the Latin regulus. Now, Regulus is the only first-magnitude star in the constellation of Leo. The sun and the moon are again clearly seen on this amulet, and on the reverse side is the same arrangement of numerals, with the actual figure given of the total 666."

[The lower coin shows the conjunction of the Sun, Moon and the star Regulus in the constellation of Leo the Lion that occurred on 19 August 1705.]

Source: Unfolding the Revelation (Revised) by Roy Allan Anderson, pages 125-127, Published and copyrighted 1953, 1961,1974 by Pacific Press Publishing Association, Boise Idaho, Oshawa Ontario, Canada. Library of Congress Catalogue Card No. 61-10884.

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Table #1 as illustrated above is also referred to in numerology as the magic Square of the Sun. There are similar magic squares for Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury and the Moon, all of which have been known for centuries.

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So 666 is a number associated with pagan sun-worship, which originated in the mysteries of ancient pagan Babylon. In Revelation 666 is associated with the number of the beast (from the sea), the Antichrist, and the harlot church of Mystery Babylon. So just who is Babylon?-

1 Pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Read what most *any* commentary says about the above verse and who "Babylon" is. There is absolutely no evidence that Peter ever ministered in literal ancient Babylon. However, early Christians used the term "Babylon" as a veiled code word for a particular city, so as to avoid persecution from that pagan power. That city is Rome.

So the evidence presented here makes 666 a link between ancient sun worshipping pagan Babylon and the Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church, which is dominated by pagan practices and solar images, and referred to as Babylon in the book of Revelation. This is just a small part of the evidence that makes this relationship apparent.

Just as a curiosity, look at this picture of

St. Mary's Catholic Cathedral in San Francisco.

Notice the 3 rows of 6 circled crosses in the design.

Six, Six, Six!

The circled cross is actually the ancient symbol for Baal and Shamash, the pagan Sun god!

See La Verita - The Truth

From the video "666 and the Mark" by James Arrabito,

Copyright © LLT Productions - Used by Permission

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NOTE: 666 is the number of the beast, not the mark.

Catholics,what do you make of THIS?
It's NOT a waste of time to study the Word of God. The Book of Revelation is the hardest book to understand in the whole Bible. There are more than a couple of interpretations of 666 and the anti-Christ. It's difficult to prove which is right, but it IS a significant question, which will affect all of us during the end-times that are prophesied. I don't know who the anti-Christ will be, but I do agree that the Catholic church teaches some things that contradict the Bible. (but so do some Protestant churches) The problem with the Catholic church is that they believe in a secondary "holy" book besides the Bible. It's called the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" and it's full of teachings that contradict the Word of God. There's a book which can explain some of the false teachings of the Catholic church, and it's called, "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics" by Ron Rhodes. It can probably be found on Amazon.com.
Reply:The Catholic Church is the beast mentioned in Rev 13:14-18

and the U.S.A is the beast mentioned in Rev13:11-13 Report It

Reply:I don't think that our job is to slam other churches or other life styles

someone has just too much time on his hands Report It

Reply:I am Catholic and have something 2 say , Ronald Wilson Reagan . Report It

Reply:I am in the process of becoming catholic and you have it all wrong about the Catechism of the Catholic Church....it does not contradict the bible and it is not a secondary holy book...it is a teaching book....it has several rites in there as well. YOU might wanna learn before you SPEAK... Report It

Reply:also there is no one true religion everyone worships god in one way or another and god never slanders any religion....and about the number look at the movie the number 23 it is there because we look for it and we want it to be there and we find a way for it to be there... Report It

Reply:hey! i was born on june 6, 1995 is dat BAD? Report It

Reply:hey! i was born on june 6, 1995 is dat BAD? Report It

Reply:*ahem* Let me explain please.

666= the mark of the beast, the devil, satan, decever whatevre.

The reason he was given that mark is because 6 is one less of 7 and 7 is perfection. 6= Short of perfection. Report It

Reply:Catholic Church is a CHURCH!...Government and alliance such as the future European Union(fourth reich)? Remember, Hitler played BOTH sides! (i-e:1000 year peace Revelation // blasphemy against church).

What happened to him? Close! [[Wolf in shepherd's clothing]]. Report It

Reply:I think someone goes to a 7th day Adventist church
Reply:I am not "moved" by things such as this... That number comes up as pages in books, numbers on credit cards, checks, license plates, etc.... It only affects you, if you let it, and if you are a person that believes in superstition, and witchcraft, etc....
Reply:What a waste of brain power.
Reply:Catholic or not..anybody can take any number or theory...twist it turn it and make it seem exactly what they want it to be!!!

666 is NOT the number of the beast...its what the author of the passage wants you to believe!!

Don't you have anything else to do??
Reply:If you want real Catholic answers visit www.EWTN.com

You should do you own investigating and stop picking debates with catholics. The Holy Spirit is the UNIFIER. Ask yourself if you are working in the Spirit of God.

Jesus asked us to love one another as He does. Conversion is only granted throgh the grace of God. Only God speaks to the hearts of man, in His time.
Reply:Interesting but irrelevant. 666 probably referred to Nero or Domitian or some other Roman Emperor who persecuted Christians. Also, remember that 6 is one short of 7, the number of perfection: 666 could be seen as "the epitome of created inadequacy", "an evil trinity which always falls short of the Holy Trinity (777)".

Besides, how could the Catholic Church be the Antichrist when it (and the Orthodox Churches) has preserved the sacraments and the Scriptures through apostolic succession? Christ said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church, after all.
Reply:Now I am 100% convinced that Paul is dead and the moon landing were staged in the California desert.

Thanks for the proof!
Reply:i agree with robert s
Reply:you have way too much time on your hands.

You should spend more time praying, and less time worrying about how other people are praying.
Reply:THE HUMAN GOVT is called by the Prophets of old as the government of the BEAST. Thus, that is the beast as the human govt is ruled by a devil called satan. The 666 is the number of beast -a human govt in the endtime that has the power over all the earth and is ruled by the devil who incarnated as the fake-Christ. In the endtime, the fake-Christ will attempt to take over Jerusalem and declare himself as the true MessIah. But his 66.6 million soldiers advance lead by him will be slowed down and they will bivouac instead at the City of Ashdod at the shore of Mediterranean sea. It is so there are two forces of threats that his own force will be facing. They are the 200 million soldiers from the east and at the same time bivouac at the Megiddo valley; while the 20 million soldiers that will be led by the 144,000 kings/ commanders of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST have gone faster and ahead to Jerusalem and had provided the perimeter force against the fake-Christ coming. Those who are professional soldiers understand these tactical postions of three (3) forces which show them in battle formation. Of course, the fake Christ will be beaten by the 200 million soldiers from the east in the Battle of Armageddon at the next dawn but by the will of GOD. Then at 2nd dawn the 200 million soldiers will surround Jerusalem and to attack but at that poiint THE LORD JESUS CHRIST-THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS will appear in heaven with the soldiers from heaven and all the 200 million soldiers from the east will be melted on their toes. Then the LORD JESUS CHRIST and HIS prophets and saints after the wrath of GOD pulverizing all man-made on the surface of the Earth by fire from heaven brimstones, meteors, volcanoes, earthquake and floods after 24 hours will descend to earth with THE LORD JESUS CHRIST feet on the Mt of Olives that faces Jerusalem from the east. THANKS GOD; FEAR GOD; PRAISE GOD; GLORIFY GOD; HONOR GOD; LOVE GOD AND WORSHIP GOD. Pls visit my website-http://groups.yahoo.com/group/THEGOODNEW...
Reply:Catholics, like other xtians, believe "God is All-knowing". But practice that He is too stupid to know what He is creating and how it will be in the future.

Go figure.

For instance:
Reply:666 can mean a lot of things. But Rome is definately the seat of the false-prophet who is also known as the harlot of Revelation.

shoe deodorant

American jokes 2: You know your american if?

2011-11-19T01:03:00.000-08:00

You believe deep down in the First Amendment, guaranteed by the government and perhaps by God.

You're familiar with David Letterman, Mary Tyler Moore, Saturday Night Live, Bewitched, the Flintstones, Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, Bob Newhart, Bill Cosby, Bugs Bunny, Road Runner, Donald Duck, the Fonz, Archie Bunker, Star Trek, the Honeymooners, the Addams Family, the Three Stooges, and Beetle Bailey.

You know how baseball, basketball, and American football are played. If you're male, you can argue intricate points about their rules. On the other hand (and unless you're under about 20), you don't care that much for soccer.

You count yourself fortunate if you get three weeks of vacation a year.

If you died tonight...

You're fairly likely to believe in God; if not, you've certainly been approached by people asking whether you know that you're going to Heaven.

You think of McDonald's, Burger King, KFC etc. as cheap food.

You probably own a telephone and a TV. Your place is heated in the winter and has its own bathroom. You do your laundry in a machine. You don't kill your own food. You don't have a dirt floor. You eat at a table, sitting on chairs.

You don't consider insects, dogs, cats, monkeys, or guinea pigs to be food.

A bathroom may not have a bathtub in it, but it certainly has a toilet.

It seems natural to you that the telephone system, railroads, auto manufacturers, airlines, and power companies are privately run; indeed, you can hardly picture things working differently.

You expect, as a matter of course, that the phones will work. Getting a new phone is routine.

The train system, by contrast, isn't very good. Trains don't go any faster than cars; you're better off taking a plane.

You find a two-party system natural. You expect the politicians of both parties to be responsive to business, strong on defense, and concerned with the middle class. You find parliamentary systems (such as Italy's) inefficient and comic.

You don't expect to hear socialism seriously defended. Communism, fuhgeddaboudit.

Between "black" and "white" there are no other races. Someone with one black and one white parent looks black to you.

You think most problems could be solved if only people would put aside their prejudices and work together.

You take a strong court system for granted, even if you don't use it. You know that if you went into business and had problems with a customer, partner, or supplier, you could take them to court.

You'd respect someone who speaks French, German, or Japanese-- but you very likely don't yourself speak them well enough to communicate with a monolingual foreigner. You're a bit more ambivalent about Spanish; you think the schools should teach kids English.

It's not all that necessary to learn foreign languages anyway. You can travel the continent using nothing but English-- and get by pretty well in the rest of the world, too.

You think a tax level of 30% is scandalously high.

School is free through high school (at least, it's an option, even if you went to private school); college isn't, unless you get a scholarship.

College is (normally, and excluding graduate study) four years long.

Everybody knows that

Mustard comes in jars. Shaving cream comes in cans. Milk comes in plastic jugs or cardboard boxes, and occasionally in bottles.

The date comes second: 11/22/63. (And you know what happened on that date.)

The decimal point is a dot. Certainly not a comma.

A billion is a thousand times a million.

World War II was a just war, and (granted all the suffering of course) ended all right. It was a time when the country came together and did what was right. And instead of insisting on vengeance, the US very generously rebuilt Europe instead, with the Marshall Plan.

You expect marriages to be made for love, not arranged by third parties. Getting married by a judge is an option, but not a requirement; most marriages happen in church. You have a best man and a maid or matron of honor at the wedding-- a friend or a sibling. And, naturally, a man gets only one wife at a time.

If a man has sex with another man, he's a homosexual.

Once you're introduced to someone (well, besides the President and other lofty figures), you can call them by their first name.

If you're a woman, you don't go to the beach topless.

A hotel room has a private bath.

You'd rather a film be subtitled than dubbed (if you go to foreign films at all).

You seriously expect to be able to transact business, or deal with the government, without paying bribes.

If a politican has been cheating on his wife, you would question his ability to govern.

Just about any store will take your credit card.

A company can fire just about anybody it wants, unless it discriminates by doing so.

You like your bacon crisp (unless it's Canadian bacon, of course).

Labor Day is in the fall.

Contributions to world civilization

You've probably seen Star Wars, ET, Home Alone, Casablanca, and Snow White. If you're under forty, add Blazing Saddles, Terminator, Jaws, and 2001; otherwise, add Gone with the Wind, A Night at the Opera, Psycho, and Citizen Kane.

You know the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Elvis, Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson, Simon %26amp; Garfunkel, Linda Ronstadt. If not, you know Frank Sinatra, Al Jolson, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Tony Bennett, and Kate Smith.

You count on excellent medical treatment. You know you're not going to die of cholera or other Third World diseases. You expect very strong measures to be taken to save very ill babies or people in their eighties. You think dying at 65 would be a tragedy.

You went over US history, and some European, in school, Not much Russian, Chinese, or Latin American. You couldn't name ten US interventions in Latin America.

You expect the military to fight wars, not get involved in politics. You may not be able to name the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Your country has never been conquered by a foreign nation.

You're used to a wide variety of choices for almost anything you buy.

You still measure things in feet, pounds, and gallons.

You are not a farmer.

Comics basically come in two varieties: newspaper comics and magazines; the latter pretty much all feature superheroes.

The people who appear on the most popular talk shows are mostly entertainers, politicians, or rather strange individuals. Certainly not, say, authors.

You drive on the right side of the road. You stop at red lights even if nobody's around. If you're a pedestrian and cars are stopped at a red light, you will fearlessly cross the street in front of them.

You think of Canada as a pleasant, peaceful, but rather dull country, which has suddenly developed an inexplicable problem in Québec. You probably couldn't explain why the Canadians didn't join the other British colonies in rebelling against King George.

You consider the Volkswagen Beetle to be a small car.

The police are armed, but not with submachine guns.

If a woman is plumper than the average, it doesn't improve her looks.

The biggest meal of the day is in the evening.

The nationality people most often make jokes about is the Poles.

There's parts of the city you definitely want to avoid at night.

Outside the Beltway

You feel that your kind of people aren't being listened to enough in Washington.

You wouldn't expect both inflation and unemployment to be very high (say, over 15%) at the same time.

You don't care very much what family someone comes from.

The normal thing, when a couple dies, is for their estate to be divided equally between their children.

You think of opera and ballet as rather elite entertainments. It's likely you don't see that many plays, either.

Christmas is in the winter. Unless you're Jewish, you spend it with your family, give presents, and put up a tree.

You may think the church is too powerful, or the state is; but you are used to not having a state church and don't think that it would be a good idea.

You'd be hard pressed to name the capitals or the leaders of all the nations of Europe.

You aren't familiar with Mafalda, Lucky Luke, Corto Maltese, Milo Manara, Guido Crepax, Gotlib, or Moebius.

You've left a message at the beep.

Taxis are generally operated by foreigners, who are often deplorably ignorant about the city.

You are distrustful of welfare and unemployment payments-- you think people should earn a living and not take handouts. But you would not be in favor of eliminating Social Security and Medicare.

If you want to be a doctor, you need to get a bachelor's first.

There sure are a lot of lawyers.

Space and time

If you have an appointment, you'll mutter an excuse if you're five minutes late, and apologize profusely if it's ten minutes. An hour late is almost inexcusable.

If you're talking to someone, you get uncomfortable if they approach closer than about two feet.

About the only things you expect to bargain for are houses, cars, and antiques. Haggling is largely a matter of finding the hidden point that's the buyer's minimum.

Once you're past college, you very rarely simply show up at someone's place. People have to invite each other over-- especially if a meal is involved.

When you negotiate, you are polite, of course, but it's only good business to 'play hardball'. Some foreigners pay excessive attention to status, or don't say what they mean, and that's exasperating.

If you have a business appointment or interview with someone, you expect to have that person to yourself, and the business shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

American jokes 2: You know your american if?
a butt wad this is the jokes section dont like the jokes

LEAVE

and dont let the door hit ya!

anyone that calls themselves a boy has no right to speak to a man
Reply:well plenty of this is characteristic for the middle-class people from most of the well-developed countries, not just for Americans. Report It

Reply:Are these actually true? Thx for posting this, very enlightening;-) I'm very far from being an American!!! hahaha Report It

Reply:You think every good thing in the world was invented by Americans.

You deplore the wars in other countries, but have no idea where they are on the planet

You feel you have the right to do anything, anywhere, and are surprised when you get arrested for it
Reply:phewie..u should get a ten for that..:)
Reply:and the question is... WHERE?

this isn't "yahoo! commentaries" or "yahoo! totally tasteless jokes". (yes, i've read your other "posts"... they can't really be called questions.) read the Y!A guidelines and you'll see that your posts are in violation, as YOU HAVEN'T ASKED A QUESTION!

btw, you've got AMAZING cut and paste skills! how many more old e-mails are you going to grace us with?

%26lt;snore%26gt;

**edit**

wow! you gentlemen really settled my hash! "maroon" and "teeteeboy"... yikes! not to mention "butt wad"! yeah, i've been brought down a peg, all right. a whole peg!

keep 'em rollin' there, seinfeld!
Reply:Priceless dude

good read!
Reply:....if you spent 10 minutes reading the first half of the first 10 lines and gave up
Reply:America is the best country on Earth. PERIOD

Do you have a list of FAVORITE MOVIES that you like to watch EVERY YEAR?

2011-11-19T01:02:00.003-08:00

If you do, please name the Top 10.

BTW, here is the list of movies “I” like to watch every year (two per week PLUS a “few” for special holidays, in the following order):

1- Blade Runner

2- Amadeus

3- 2001: A Space Odyssey

4- Dr. Zhivago

5- The Magnificent Seven

6- Return of the Pink Panther (with Peter Sellers)

7- The Godfather (Part 1)

8- The Searchers

9- Enter the Dragon (Bruce Lee – Still the best BTW)

10- Citizen Kane

11- Jungle Book

12- Blazing Saddles

13- The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly

14- Unforgiven

15- Party (with Peter Sellers)

16- E.T. – The Extra Terrestrial

17- The Last Temptation of Christ

18- Breakfast at Tiffany’s

19- Shane

20- 9 ½ Weeks

21- The Dirty Dozen

22- Lonesome Dove

23- Once Upon a Time in The West

24- Cat Ballou

25- Star Wars

26- The Gunfighter

27- Frisco Kid

28- 81/2

29- Seven Samurai

30- The Wild Bunch

31- English Patient

32- An Officer and a Gentleman

Do you have a list of FAVORITE MOVIES that you like to watch EVERY YEAR?
I didn't see About Last Night or Dirty Dancing on your list. :)
Reply:Around Christmas time, I love to watch "Christmas Vacation".
Reply:I can't believe I'm doing this:

Troy

The Count of Monte Cristo(both the one with James Caviezel and the one with Gerard Diperdieu

Face Off

The Rock

Armageddon

Sin City

West Side Story

Wizard of Oz

Chicago

Grease

Remember the Titans

The Ten Commandments

and almost all the Disney animated movies that came out before and including Toy Story.
Reply:your list has some very good movies on it! BUT i only watch a very short list of movies every year and most of them are something to do with dance....

center stage

dirty dancing

save the last dance

dance with me

the turning point

the last 30 minutes of saturday night fever are dynamite (not to be confused with 'staying alive')

and of course, all movies harry potter

(yeah, yeah...so what if i'm grown up? i still want to BE good ol' h p!)

now why haven't you asked the same question about books?
Reply:1 - Five Deadly Venoms

2 - Challenge Of The Ninja

3 - Prodigal Boxer

4 - Crystal Fist

5 - Unbeatable Dragon

6 - Spearman Of Death

7 - Chinese Connection

8 - Way Of The Dragon (Return Of The Dragon)

9- The Craft

10 - The Coffin Joe Trilogy

11 - Blade (I; II; III)

12 - Seven Samurai

13 - Bubblegum Crisis (1 - 8)

14 - Akira

15 - Ace Ventura Pet Detective

16 - Tai Chi Master

17 - Dragons Forever

18 - Master Killer

19 - Love On A Diet

20 - Friday

21 - Three Avengers

22 - Passenger 57

23 - Three The Hard Way

24 - The Spook Who Sat By The Door

25 - Superfly

26 - Ginger Snaps

27 - Kill Bill (Vol 1 %26amp; 2)

28 - Rock 'n' Rule

29 - Pompoko

30 - My Neighbor Totoro

31 - Ong Bak

32 - Monty Python %26amp; The Quest For The Holy Grail

33 - Enter The Dragon

34 - Rashomon

35 - Shogun (the 80's mini series)

36 - Mary Shelly's Frankenstein

37 - Little Nicky

38 - Jesus Christ Superstar

39 - Garage Days

40 - Hackers

41 - The Who's "Tommy" (1975 with Elton John %26amp; Tina Turner)

From this list pick any 10 random films. Of all the movies I own, these are the ones I love the most. Notice that most of them are kung fu movies!
Reply:1. Interview with a Vampire

2. The Holiday

3. Tarzan

4. Star Wars.......oh yeah

5. Anything with Adam Sandler

6. A.I. (Artificial Intelligence)

7. Anything with Amanda Bynes(She's soooo funny)

8. Mr. Bean(Little known but hilarious)

9. Any scary movie involving paranormal activity, vampires and zombies)

10. Chick Flicks on occasion

11. The Fifth Element

12. A Night at the Roxbury

13. The Phantom of the Opera

14. MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL!!!!!

But I'm always up to mostly anything.

Oh and Blood Diamond was good. There's more.....I just can't remember.
Reply:Every Christmas we watch A Christmas Story at least twice, and The Santa Clause at least once. I haven't done this for awhile, but I used to watch Dirty Dancing at least three times a year.
Reply:the lord of the rings

the pirates of the caribbean

the pianist

green mile

nightmare on elm street

the sea inside me

double trap

edward scissorhands

the aristocats(disney movie!)

chocolat

the mask of zoro

charlie and the chocolate factory
Reply:1. The Mouse That Roared

2. Fistfull of Dollars

3. The Bank Dick

4. My Little Chickadee

5. White Christmas

6. The Alamo

7. Blade Runner

8. Spaceballs

9. Any Bob Hope, Bing Crosby Road To Movie

10. Apocolypse Now

11. To Kill A Mockingbird

12. Illustrated Man (Rod Steiger)

13. Once Upon A Time In The West

14. Barbarella!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply:I love watching "it's a wonderful life" around christmas time, it just gets me at the end. other than that I can watch "the godfather I and II" anytime of the year along with a few other movies but usually I just watch a movie once and then again like in a few years.
Reply:I love these.

Return of the Living Dead

City of the Living Dead

Tombs of the Blind Dead

Return of the Evil Dead

Once Upon a Time in the West

Night of the Demons

Calamity Jane

Elvira Mistress of the Dark

Eating Raoul

Ghost

I'll stop there cause it will go on forever.

The ones I watch on special occasions are:

Happy Birthday To Me

Halloween

Friday the 13th

Silent Night Deadly Night

Mother's Day
Reply:well i dont watch that many but i watch The Big Red One every week

What movie should i see out of these choices, i have them all but havn't seem 95% of them?

2011-11-19T01:02:00.002-08:00

* 007 Die Another Day

1

* 10 Things I Hate About You

4

* 40 Year Old Virgin

A

* A Cinderella Story

* A Scanner Darkly

* A Walk To Remember

* Accepted (Movie)

* Addictos

* Advertisements

* Agent Cody Banks

* Airplane

* Ali G Indahouse

* Alieness

* America: Freedom to Fascism

* American Pie

* American Pie 4: Band Camp

* American Pie 5: The Naked Mile

* American Pie the wedding

* An Inconvenient Truth

* Anastasia

* Anchorman: The Legend of Ron...

* Animation Crew

* Anne of Green Gables

* Anne of Green Gables:The Sequel

* Apocalypto

* Appleseed

* Army Of Darkness

* ATL

* Austin Powers 3

* Australia

B

* B-Girl Anne

* Bad Santa

* Baek - Extreme

* Balto

* Batman Begins

* Battle Royale

* Bboy Unit

* BCONE

* Beautiful Thing

* Beavis And Butthead Do America

* Beer League

* Beerfest

* Behind Enemy Lines 2

* Bend it Like Beckham

* Benji

* Better than Chocolate

* Big Money Hustlas

* Black Hawk Down

* Blazing Saddles

* Blood Diamond

* Blood Sports

* Born - Rivers

* BOTY

* Brahim - Pockemon

* Brickheadz

* Bride and Prejudice

* Bride Of Chucky

* Bring It On - All or Nothing

* Brother to Brother

* Bruce Lee - Gamblers

* Bulletproof Monk (USA 2003)

C

* Cars

* Casablanca (1942)

* Casino Royale

* Casper - Boogie Brats

* Chasing Amy

* Cheaper By The Dozen

* Cheaper By The Dozen 2

* Children Of Men

* China

* Cico

* Circus Runaways

* CKY 2K

* CKY 3K

* CKY 4K

* Clerks 2

* Cloud - Skill Methods

* CodeName: The Cleaner(2007)

* Constantine

* Coyote Ugly

* Crank

* Crash

* Crossover

* Cruel Intentions

D

* D.E.B.S.

* D.O.A.

* D1: The mighty ducks

* D2 The Mighty Ducks

* D3 The Mighty Ducks 3

* Dangerous Minds

* Darkness - Gamblers

* Dead Alive (Aka Braindead)

* Dead Mary (2006)

* Deja Vu

* Derailed

* Devil Wear Prada

* District B13

* Do Knock

* Donnie Darko

* Doom

* Drifters

* Drumline

* Drunken Master (Jackie Chan)

* Ducky - Drifters

* Duo

E

* Eagle - Maximum

* Easy Rider

* Eight crazy nights

* Electric Dreams

* Elizabethtown

* Elsewhere

* Empire Records

* Eragon

* Euology

* Event Trailer

* Exotica

* Expression

* Extreme Away

* Extreme Crew - Obowang

* Extremo - Addictos

F

* Fahrenheit 911

* Family Guy: The Untold Story

* Fantastic Four (1994)

* Fast and the Furious 3 Tokyo Drift

* Fear %26amp; Loathing In Las Vegas

* Figh Science

* Fight Science

* Fight Scince

* Final Destination 2

* Final Destination 3

* Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

* Finding Nemo

* Fireworks

* First Day High (FDH)

* Flight Of The Navigator

* Floorgangz

* Florida

* Flyboys

* Frankenstein (1910)

* Freedom Writers (2007)

* Freestyle Session

* Friday The 13th

* Full Force

G

* Gamblers

* Garfield 2

* Gone With The Wind

* Good Will Hunting

* Gridiron Gang

H

* Happy Feet

* Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle

* Harry Potter

* Harry Potter and the Goblet Of Fire

* Havikoro

* He-Man - Secret of the Sword

* Heavenly Creatures

* HJ Boys

* Hocus Pocus

* Home Alone 1

* Honey

* Hong 10 - Drifters

* Hoodwinked

* Hotel Rwanda

* House Of Wax

I

* I Know What You Did Last Summer

* IBE

* Ice Age 2: The Meltdown

* Ichigeki

* Idiocracy

* If Only

* Imagine Me %26amp; You

* In The Mix

* Instructional Video

* Interview

* Into The Blue

* Invincible

* Ivan

J

* Jackass 2

* Jackass The Movie

* Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back

* Jeepers Creepers 2

* Jersey Girl

* John Tucker Must Die

* Ju-On The Curse

* Ju-On The Curse 2

* Ju-On The Grudge

* Ju-On The Grudge 2

* Jun - Extreme

* Junior - Wanted

* Jurassic Park 3

* Just Friends

* Just My Luck

K

* Kahlil

* Karimbo

* Kenan and Kel - Two Heads Are...

* KickBoxer

* Kicking and Screaming

* Kidulthood

* Killafornia

* Kim Yun Soo - Gamblers

* Kirk - Havikoro

* Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

* Kissing Jessica Stein

* Kmel

* Knuckleheads Zoo

* Korea

* Kujo

L

* Last 4 One

* Late Night Tales

* Law - Circus Runaways

* Lil Bob - Killafornia

* Lilou - Pockemon

* Lion King 3: Hakuna Matata

* Little Children

* Little Man

* Little Miss Sunshine

* Little Nicky

* Little Women

* London

* Look At Us Crew

* Lord of the Rings-Fellowship of...

* Lords Of The Floor

* Lost and Delirious

* Love Actually

* Love Story

* Lucky Number Slevin

M

* Machine

* Madagascar

* Malaysia

* Marcio - Obstruxtion

* Massive Monkees

* Master Crews

* Material Girls

* Maximum Crew

* MB Crew

* Mean Girls

* Meason - Wanted

* Men In Black 2

* Million Dollar Baby

* Miracles

* Miss Congeniality

* Mission Impossible 3

* Monster House

* Monty Python And The Holy Grail

* Mortal Kombat

* Moulin Rouge

Your Ad Here

M

* Movies

* Moving Violations

* Moy - Havikoro

* Mr. and Mrs. Smith

* Mulholland Drive

* My Summer Of Love

* Mysterious Skin

N

* Naruto Movie

* Nausicaa of the valley of the wind

* Never Been Kissed

* Night at the Museum

* Ninja Turtles

* Ninja Turtles 2

* Now and Then

O

* Omar - Jive Turkeys

* Omen

* Other

* Other Battles

* Over The Hedge

P

* Phantom of the Paradise

* Phat Girls

* Philedelphia

* Phone Booth

* Physics - Rivers

* Pierre

* Pirates of Silicon Valley

* Pirates Of The Carribean

* Plan 9 From Outer Space

* Pockemon

* Popping Video

* Powder

* Pride and Prejudice

* Princess Mononoke

* Promo Video

* Pulp Fiction

* Pulse

R

* Raise Your Voice

* Rear Window

* Red Eye

* Red Vs Blue

* Remind - Style Elements

* Rent

* Requiem For A Dream

* Resident Evil: Apocalypse

* Reveal - Rockforce

* Revenge Of The Nerds

* Rhythm Bugs

* Rivers

* Rize

* Robin Hood Men in Tights

* Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves

* Robocop

* Robocop 1

* Robots

* Rocksteady Crew

* Rocky Balboa

* Romeo %26amp; Juliet

* Romeo Must Die

* Ronnie

* Rubberlegz

* Ruen

* Rumble In The Bronx (Jackie Chan)

* Rush Hour 1

* Rush Hour 2

* Ryoma - Mortal Kombat

S

* Saint Ralph

* Save The Last Dance 2

* Saving Face

* Saw

* SAW 2

* SAW 3

* Scarface

* Scary Movie 3

* Scary Movie 4

* ScoobyDoo

* Scoobydoo 2

* Scream 3

* Scribble Jam

* Seattle

* See No Evil

* Seed Of Chucky

* Serenity

* Shaolin Soccer

* Shaun Of The Dead

* Shorty - Brickheadz

* Shrek 2

* Silent Hill

* Silent Hill (good quality)

* Simply Irresistible

* Sin City

* Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants

* Sky High

* SLC Punk

* Sleepover

* Snakes On A Plane

* Soulplane

* South Park The Movie! Bigger...

* South Park: Bigger Longer And Uncut

* Spanglish

* Spawn

* Speak

* Speedy

* Spider Man 2

* Spirited Away

* Star Wars

* Star Wars Episode I

* Star Wars Episode II

* Stargate: Children Of The Gods

* Stay Alive

* Step Up

* Stomp The Yard

* Style Elements

* Suddenly 30

* summer storm

* Super Mario Bros: The Movie

* Super Size Me

* Superchair Crew

* Superman Returns

* Superman Returns - Great Quality

* Syriana

T

* Taiwan

* Take The Lead

* Taking Lives

* Talladega Nights: The Ballad of...

* Talladega Nights: The Ballad of...

* tank girl

* TBC Crew

* Team America

* Tenacious D: The Pick of Destiny

* Terminator 2

* Texas Chainsaw Massacre

* Texas Chainsaw Massacre The...

* TG Breakers

* Thailand

* The Benchwarmers

* The Big Lebowski

* The Black Dahlia

* The Boondock Saints

* The Break Up

* The Butterfly Effect 2

* The Christmas Shoes

* The Chronicles Of Narnia

* The Covenant

* The Covenant - Great Quality

* The Craft

* The Da Vinci Code

* The Departed

* The Fast and Furious

* The Fast And The Furious Tokyo...

* The Flight of Dragons

* The Fountain

* The Girl Next Door

* The Goonies

* The Grudge 2

* The Hard Corps

* The Heart is Deceitful Above All...

* The Hitcher (2007)

* The Holiday

* The Illusionist

* The Incredibles

* The Lake House

* The Lion King

* The Lion King 2

* The Lion King 2: Simbas Pride

* The Lizzie Maguire Movie

* The Lost Boys

* The Marine

* The Mask

* The Matrix

* The Message-Story of Islam

* The Mummy Returns

* The Muppet Movie

* The Myth

* The Naked Gun

* The Nativity

* The Negotiator

* The Never Ending Story

* The Night of the Living Dead (1968 ...

* The Notebook

* The Omen

* The Outsiders

* The Perfect Man

* The Phantom of the Opera (cartoon...

* The Phantom of the Opera 1925

* The Pianist

* The Polar Express

* The Prestige

* The Prince Of Egypt

* The Princess Bride

* The Pursuit Of Happiness

* The Queen

* The Ramayana (animated)

* The Road to Guantanamo

* The Santa Clause 3: The Escape...

* The Secret

* The Sentinel

* The Shawshank Redemption

* The Sixth Sense

* The Sweetest Thing

* The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974)

* The Thin Red Line

* The Transporter

* The Wedding Singer

* The Wicker Man

* The Woods

* Thirteen

* This Is Spinal Tap

* TIP

* Top Gun

* Top Secret!

* TOPDOG UNDADOG

* Total Session

* Trailer Park Boys: The Original...

* Training Day

* Trainspotting

* Transporter 2

* Twelve And Holding (2007)

* Two For The Money

U

* Ultraviolet

* Unaccompanied Minors

* Underworld Evolution

* Uptown Girls

V

* Vagabonds

W

* Waiting

* Wake Up - Maximum Crew

* Walk The Line

* Wallace and Gromit - Curse of the...

* Wanted

* Watership Down

* We Are Marshall

* Wedding Crashers

* What a Girl Wants

* When A Stranger Calls

* White Chicks

* Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

* Who Killed The Electric Car?

* Wild Things

* Willy Wonka %26amp; the Chocolate Factory

* Wimbledon

* World Bboy Championships

* Wu Jin Won - Rivers

X

* X-Men 3 The Last Stand

Y

* Yoshi - Kamata Breakers

* You Got Served Movie

* You Me And Dupree

Z

* Zathura - A Space Adventure

What movie should i see out of these choices, i have them all but havn't seem 95% of them?
A.

A Scanner Darkly

An Inconvenient Truth

Anchorman: The Legend of Ron...

Apocalypto

Austin Powers 3

P.S as the other person pointed out you need to get american phsycho and american beauty and A history of violence... they are awsome.

B.

Batman begins

Blood diamond

Maybe Blood sports and Black hawk down

C.

Casino royale

Casino Royale

Crash

Children of men

Crank

maybe Cruel intentions

P.S can't believe you paid for Crossover its like the worst movie ever according to imdb.com.

D.

The mighty ducks movies

Donnie Darko

Deja Vu

Drunken master

maybe The Devil wears prada

E.

None

F.

Fahrenheit 911

Family Guy: The Untold Story

Fast and the Furious 3 Tokyo Drift

Fear %26amp; Loathing In Las Vegas

Final Destination 3 (them chiks r hot!)

Finding Nemo

Frankenstein (1910)

Freedom Writers (2007)

Friday The 13th

P.S Get Fight Club you bum!

G.

Gone With The Wind

Good Will Hunting

Gridiron Gang

H.

Happy Feet

Harry Potter

Harry Potter and the Goblet Of Fire

Heavenly Creatures

Home Alone 1

Hoodwinked

Hotel Rwanda

House Of Wax

I.

Idicracy

Into the blue (Alba is smokin hot!)

J.

Jackass The Movie

Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back

Jurassic Park 3

K.

Kiss kiss bang bang

L.

Little Children

Little Miss Sunshine

Little Nicky

Lord of the Rings-Fellowship of...

Love Actually(just dont watch with a 10 year old)

Lucky Number Slevin

P.S get Lord of war if you can

M.

Madagascar

Million Dollar Baby

Miss Congeniality

Mission Impossible 3

Monster House

Moulin Rouge

Mr. and Mrs. Smith

Mulholland Drive

N.

maybe the turtles movie but nothin else here.

O.

Over the hedge

P.

Philedelphia

Phone Booth

Pirates Of The Carribean

Plan 9 From Outer Space

Pulp Fiction

Pulse

Q.

none.

R.

Rear Window

Red Eye

Requiem For A Dream

Resident Evil: Apocalypse

Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves

Robocop

Robocop 1

Robots

Rocky Balboa

Romeo %26amp; Juliet

Rumble In The Bronx (Jackie Chan)

Rush Hour 1

Rush Hour 2

S.

Saw

SAW 2

SAW 3

Scarface

Scary Movie 3

Scary Movie 4

Seed Of Chucky

Serenity

Shaolin Soccer

Shaun Of The Dead

Shrek 2

Sin City

Snakes On A Plane

South Park The Movie! Bigger...

South Park: Bigger Longer And Uncut

Speed

Spider Man 2

Spirited Away

Star Wars

Star Wars Episode I

Star Wars Episode II

Step Up

Super Size Me

Superman Returns

Syriana

T.

Take The Lead

Talladega Nights: The Ballad of...

Team America

Terminator 2

Texas Chainsaw Massacre

Texas Chainsaw Massacre The...

The Big Lebowski

The Chronicles Of Narnia

The Craft

The Da Vinci Code

The Departed

The Fast and Furious

The Fast And The Furious Tokyo...

The Fountain

The Heart is Deceitful Above All...

The Hitcher (2007)

The Holiday

The Illusionist

The Incredibles

The Lake House

The Lion King

The Lost Boys

The Marine

The Mask

The Matrix

The Message-Story of Islam

The Mummy Returns

The Naked Gun(hallarious)

The Never Ending Story

The Night of the Living Dead (1968 ...

The Notebook

The Omen

The Outsiders

The Phantom of the Opera 1925

The Pianist

The Polar Express

The Prestige

The Prince Of Egypt

The Princess Bride

The Pursuit Of Happiness

The Road to Guantanamo

The Shawshank Redemption(awsome)

The Sixth Sense

The Sweetest Thing

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974)

The Thin Red Line

The Transporter

The Wicker Man(if its the old one then yes else no)

Top Gun

Training Day

Trainspotting

Transporter 2

U.

Underworld evolution (only for kate's ****)

V.

none.

W.

Walk The Line

Wallace and Gromit - Curse of the...

Wedding Crashers

Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

Who Killed The Electric Car?

Wild Things

Willy Wonka %26amp; the Chocolate Factory

X.

X men- the last stand.

P.S try and get the other x-men movies if you can.

Y.

you me and dupree

z. none

All in all i think you have a very very $hitty taste in films judging by the massiv amount of crappy films you have in your DVD collection and i advise you to get a refund on most of the films in your collection.

May god bless you.

P.S it took me nearly 30 minutes to answer your darn question.
Reply:definitely watch Elizabethtown! that's my favorite movie
Reply:* clerks 2
Reply:Trainspotting
Reply:Well, if you watch Stargate: Children of the Gods, be prepared for the fact that is not actually a movie but the pilot episode of a very wonderful TV series called Stargate SG-1. It's easy to get hooked on, so don't be surprised if--after watching the "movie"--you end up adding more to your DVD collection...

...the show ran for ten seasons, wrapping up its final episodes on the SciFi Channel this spring.
Reply:Okay that is a hella long list, but I'd pick either The Pianist or Underworld Evolution.
Reply:my 2 favorite movies (not on your list, i'm afraid): Taxi with Queen Latifah and The Other Sister with Juliet Lewis. the 1st one is hilarious and the other one is funny and heart warming.
Reply:A scanner darkly. Also add Waking Life to your collection.

What, are you locked in a Hollywood Video store or something?
Reply:I just saw Requiem for a Dream last night. I must say its now a favorite. I would have missed it but I watched this trailer that drew me to it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNYePkR7u...

Obviously, the actual movie has nothing to do with Toy Story but great none the less.
Reply:Casablanca, it is a classic that everyone should have seen at least once.
Reply:stopped reading after the A listings

go off your board and go rent

American Psycho

and

American Beauty
Reply:You don't have these listed, but they are a must:

ZULU

A NIGHT TO REMEMBER (about Titanic, beats the James Cameron film all to he**)

THE LIGHTHORSEMEN (about the Australian 4th Light Horse in WWI. Plus, fantastic soundtrack)
Reply:A

* A Cinderella Story

* A Walk To Remember

* Accepted (Movie)

* American Pie 4: Band Camp

* An Inconvenient Truth

* Anastasia

* Anne of Green Gables

* Anne of Green Gables:The Sequel

B

* Bend it Like Beckham

* Black Hawk Down

* Blood Diamond

* Bride Of Chucky

* Bring It On - All or Nothing

C

* Cars

* Casablanca (1942)

* Casino Royale

* Casper - Boogie Brats

*Cheaper By The Dozen 2

* Coyote Ugly

* Crash

* Cruel Intentions

D

* D1: The mighty ducks

* D2 The Mighty Ducks

* D3 The Mighty Ducks 3

* Darkness

* Devil Wear Prada

E

* Eight crazy nights

* Empire Records

* Eragon

F

* Fantastic Four (1994)

* Final Destination 2

* Final Destination 3

* Finding Nemo

* Freedom Writers (2007)

G

* Gone With The Wind

* Good Will Hunting

* Gridiron Gang

H

* Harry Potter

* Harry Potter and the Goblet Of Fire

* Hocus Pocus

* Home Alone 1

I

* Imagine Me %26amp; You

J

* Jackass 2

* Jackass The Movie

* Jeepers Creepers 2

* Jersey Girl

* John Tucker Must Die

L

* Little Children

* Little Miss Sunshine

* Little Women

* Lord of the Rings-Fellowship of...

M

* Mean Girls

* Material Girls

* Men In Black 2

* Million Dollar Baby

* Miss Congeniality

* Monster House

* Mr. and Mrs. Smith

N

* Never Been Kissed

* Night at the Museum

* Ninja Turtles

* Ninja Turtles 2

* Now and Then

O

* Omen

* Over The Hedge

P

* Pirates Of The Carribean

* Pride and Prejudice

* Pulse

R

* Raise Your Voice

* Red Eye

* Resident Evil: Apocalypse

* Robin Hood Men in Tights

* Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves

* Robocop

* Robocop 1

* Romeo %26amp; Juliet

* Rush Hour 1

* Rush Hour 2

S

* Saw

* SAW 2

* SAW 3

* Scarface

* Scary Movie 3

* Scary Movie 4

* ScoobyDoo

* Scream 3

* Seed Of Chucky

* Serenity

* Shrek 2

* Sleepover

* Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants

* Speedy

* Spider Man 2

* Star Wars

* Star Wars Episode I

* Star Wars Episode II

* Stargate: Children Of The Gods

* Stay Alive

* Step Up

* Stomp The Yard

* Super Mario Bros: The Movie

* Super Size Me

T

* Terminator 2

* Texas Chainsaw Massacre

* Texas Chainsaw Massacre The...

* The Benchwarmers

* The Chronicles Of Narnia

* The Covenant

* The Covenant - Great Quality

* The Craft

* The Departed

* The Fast and Furious

* The Girl Next Door

* The Hitcher (2007)

* The Holiday

* The Lion King

* The Lion King 2

* The Mummy Returns

* The Muppet Movie

* The Notebook

* The Omen

* The Outsiders

* The Perfect Man

* The Phantom of the Opera

* The Pianist

* The Polar Express

* The Pursuit Of Happiness

* The Queen

* The Shawshank Redemption

* The Sixth Sense

* The Thin Red Line

* The Transporter

* Thirteen

* Transporter 2

U

* Unaccompanied Minors

* Underworld Evolution

* Uptown Girls

W

* Walk The Line

* We Are Marshall

* Wedding Crashers

* What a Girl Wants

* When A Stranger Calls

* Willy Wonka %26amp; the Chocolate Factory

* Wimbledon

X

* X-Men 3 The Last Stand

Y

* You Got Served Movie
Reply:Wedding Crashers! Its a hilarious movie.

My new short poem, The Moon?

2011-11-19T01:02:00.001-08:00

Opinions?

The Moon.

Luminous moon

Enlighten the night

Twinkling stars

Glowing with light

Behind is the sun

Keeping it bright

Shine in darkness

It blazes alight

My new short poem, The Moon?
The moon- a favorite subject of mine , and you have written a very lovely poem about it. I love the form and rhyme, and it all flows well. You have said so much without a word wasted. Thank you.
Reply:I really liked the descriptiveness of this, I usually don't enjoy short-lined poems like this, but, this one I really loved! Its really rythmatic and moves along very well, bravo!

Help on my Java code

Poetry..HELP NEEDED?

2011-11-19T01:02:00.000-08:00

I have to analyze 5 poems-what kind of poem is it? Elements of the poetry such as imagery, alliteration, assonance, and consonance. I kinda lost with the whole thing. I need your help please...Any feed back from any of these poems would be a HUGE help! (all would be greatly preferred!) Here are 2...

1. Star light, star bright,

The first star I see tonight,

I wish I may, I wish I might,

Have the wish I wish tonight.

by Unknown

2. Twinkle, twinkle, little star,

How I wonder what you are,

Up above the world so high,

Like a diamond in the sky.

When the blazing sun is set,

And the grass with dew is wet,

Then you show your little light,

Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.

As your bright and tiny spark

Lights the traveller in the dark,

Though I know not what you are,

Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

by Jane Taylor

Poetry..HELP NEEDED?
Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star is written in couplet form

The simile ' like a diamond in the sky' teaches children how words can be used to paint a picture in the imagination. The words create a comparison between the twinkling of the star to a sparkling diamond thus providing a perfect illustration of clever imagery and excellent use of the English language..

both poems ryhme...bright, light, sky hight..

Star light has repitition of words (star and wish...)

Most alliteration occurs on stressed syllables. ... (ex.Twinkle, twinkle, little star
Reply:What are you in 5th grade; those questions are too hard for everyone.

How? Atheists? How?

2011-11-19T01:01:00.003-08:00

I'LL START BY SAYING MY CAPSLOCK IS NOT ANGER.

Atheist proudly say "there is no God", or "God doesn't exist", but do they truly know that? Think about this, WHERE did the SUN come from, a big ball of fire (JUST UP IN SPACE WHERE THERES SUPPOSED TO BE NO OXYGEN, FIRE NEEDS OXYGEN, so how would the sun stay flamed without it? The moon also. AND SOMEONE HAD TO CREATE THE WAY THE PENIS AND VAGINA ARE DESIGNED FOR EACH OTHER IN ORDER TO REPRODUCE. AND BREAST TO FEED THOSE BABIES. SOMEONE HAD TO KNOW THATS WHAT WE (and animals) NEEDED TO HAVE CHILDREN. that's why men can't have babies with men or women with women. EVEN IF ATHEISTS DO THINK WE EVOLVED FROM APES, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOMEONE WHO CREATED APES.

SOMEONE BIG ENOUGH TO HAVE CREATED THE EARTH.

SOMEONE BIG ENOUGH TO HAVE CREATED AND PUT THE BLAZING SUN NICELY SITTING IN SPACE.

SOMEONE BIG ENOUGH TO HAVE PUT ALL THOSE STARS UP THERE.

SOMEONE BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE THE WORLD TURN AND KEEP PLANETS IN ORBIT.

We are not alone.

How? Atheists? How?
I've seen the wonders of nature, %26amp; I've seen true miracles in my life. I, for one, have no trouble believing in God. No, we aren't alone -- there IS a "higher power" watching us live our lives, %26amp; hoping we make the right choices (letting us use free will) like any father (parent) would. He gave us the intelligence to learn from our mistakes, but some of us are too self-absorbed to do that. In one respect, they're right -- it seems that you need to calm down a bit, %26amp; choose your words more carefully. However, that's the ONLY point on which we agree. Sometimes I wish non-believers had their own category, but w/o them we'd only be "preaching to the choir" (so to speak). If we share w/ 1000, but reach only 1 -- well, at least we saved that one. As for the rest -- it's their loss. We tried, %26amp; besides, we're only responsible for our own souls anyway. Keep the faith!
Reply:i think you shouldn't post this on here because everyone has their own opinions.

if you are this bored go to church.. because you must be very religious.
Reply:Science has all the answers for your questions... and those answers can be verified. Some may not be complete answers at this time, but they are more complete than GODDIDIT!
Reply:ooh! you must be really poor in science...

I hate to ask this, but it seems u really need to be asked.

"WHO CREATED GOD? SOMEONE BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE A CREATOR WHO COULD CREATE THE WORLD!"

Edit* Smart in Science and they taught u Sun is a ball of fire ?!!!!! Who is ur science teacher??
Reply:And who is big enough to make this creator being?

By your logic, if apes need a creator, then that more complicated being who made them must require an even *more* impressive creator.

It's a mirror image of the "turtles all the way down" position of "What is holding up a flat earth?"

Once you have stated with reference to the Sun that "FIRE NEEDS OXYGEN" it is clear that you have totally undermined any credibility your argument might have.

Please get some education in this area.
Reply:Are you serious? Really? Have you ever read a science book? Watched any documentaries on archeology, history or religions? I desperately think you need to go to a natural history museum (new creationist museum doesn't count, it has no validity, no evidence, or facts to back it), study up on history, science, archeology %26amp; religions. You can't be serious, I must be missing the joke.

Add- Please stop, this is getting embarrassing, you really need to update yourself in the world of science.

Wow! We are saying you are ignorant because you are, you are not well informed. Ignorant does not mean you are stupid or an idiot, it means you are not informed, which I find worse than being an idiot, you have the ability to educate yoursef, an idiot does not. Oh, and before you start throwing words around such as oh, I don't know, evidence, you may want to know the definition first, less embarrassing for you.
Reply:There's no need to shout. 8^)

People have wondered about those things forever. Scientists have thought, questioned, tried new ideas, did centuries and centuries of observations, and come up with some theories. Some of the brightest minds in history have devoted their lives to finding answers to these questions, and have written at length about what they learned, what they thought, how they knew.

Yet the more we know, the more we know that we don't know. So the ratio of what we know to what we -want- to know remains roughly constant.

But this scientific progress has brought us space travel, antibiotics, cuckoo clocks, air travel, saran wrap, satellite communications, threaded fasteners, and the Internet.

Would you have us completely abandon all this and just substitute one answer to every question--'God did it'? We'd still be in the stone age!
Reply:wow, that is a very bad arguement, and you don't have to yell with the caps and all, I think it might be anger even though you disagree with that notion, Why should I take someone seriously that types in all caps.
Reply:The sun doesn't burn like a fire in a fireplace therefore oxygen is not needed. The gases glow because of the nuclear fusion going on in the core and that makes the sun bright. The saying that the sun burns hydrogen is a misnomer - hydrogen doesn't burn - it fuses into helium. Therefore, given that, I do not see where a deity was required to "start the sun".

You can believe what you want, but the way you have phrased your question will make people question the education you received in the discipline of science.
Reply:I also take exception to the idea that there is no oxygen in space therefore how does the sun burn, ....you must have been away that day when you took it in science class.

It is more like a nuclear reaction. The sun is just a big ball of hydrogen. Hydrogen under enormous pressure. So much pressure that it is called "plasma"

here's a link http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q2.ht...

I do agree with you on the penis and vagina. God made those babies, even atheists yell that out at the apex of ecstacy. XD.
Reply:May I point out that your argument assumes that there must have been "someone?" There is no particular reason or need to assume that a personality of any kind had to do with any of the things you mention.

All of the things you mention have very earth-bound explanations, if you take the trouble to look them up. Of course, I must caution you that if you do take the trouble to look them up, you may learn things that you won't like. It's dangerous, doing research and learning, but well worth the effort.
Reply:typing in caps is shouting and it looks silly.

Also your entire argument seems to be "I dont know how stuff works therefore goddidit". The problem is the things you've listed - a lot of people do know how they work.
Reply:its not about someone. its between two forces coexist each other to stay alive. some people call it God and the other devil. BUT ITS NOT SOMEONE.

i already asked that when i was younger then but now i prove i know.
Reply:Wow, are you a grade schooler? your ignorance is appalling.

Edit

"PEOPLE WHY MUST YOU CALL ME IGNORANT, YOU DON'T KNOW ME ENOUGH TO CALL ME THAT. IF YOU ASK ME SOME OF YOU ARE JUST ANGRY AND HAVE TO LET IT OUT SOMEPLACE. I GUESS THAT PLACE IS ME, DARN!!"

The questions you made prove you are quite ignorant of basic science, ie calling the sun a fire ball.
Reply:golly, that's some grade A ignorance you got there. quite impressive really. answering your questions wouldn't change your mind about the usefulness of your answer, so i won't bother. besides, if you were really curious about those things you'd have to be a total retard to have to ask atheists on the internet about it, and i don't think you're a total retard. although boy howdy, you're making it difficult to think highly of you here.
Reply:well first of all, the moon gets its light from the sun. it just reflects the light of the sun onto earth, which is why the light isn't as strong as the sun itself (i think)

as for the sun, that is true. I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE I HAVEN'T STUDIED IT IN SCHOOL YET, NOR HAVE I LOOKED INTO IT, but i wonder why, now that you've pointed it out, why the sun, a ball of fire, stays fired up with no oxygen
Reply:you're joking......aren't you?
Reply:Just because you failed your high school science class doesn't mean God exists. Educate yourself, you're making a scene.
Reply:Whoa...caps...geez...I'm not Atheist, but I'm agnostic or whatever it is...I don't really have a religion, and I don't say anything bad about religion. You can't always change what people believe...
Reply:The sun burns by nuclear fusion.

Hope that helps.

(I know, WHO IS BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE A NUCLEAR!?)

PS How can you claim to be "SMART IN THE SCIENCE AREA" ...yet at the same time not know *anything* about how the Sun burns?

ARGGGHHH, I got satire-trolled didn't I? (hangs head in shame)
Reply:Right. First of all, go do some science and you'll find the answers to most of your questions. You can't have reasoned argument with someone who can't be bothered to even research the basics. Firstly, the sun (and other stars) don't "burn" in the same way as a fire on earth. The sun "burns" due to a nuclear reaction that fuses hydrogen to form helium. I could go on and answer all your questions, but I honestly doubt that your unthinking belief could be swayed, just as my thinking belief in science could never be changed by a religious fanatic

Any English Majors Out There??

2011-11-19T01:01:00.002-08:00

I have to analyze 5 poems-what kind of poem is it? Elements of the poetry such as imagery, alliteration, assonance, and consonance. I kinda lost with the whole thing. I need your help please...Any feed back from any of these poems would be a HUGE help! (all would be greatly preferred!) Here are 2...

1. Star light, star bright,

The first star I see tonight,

I wish I may, I wish I might,

Have the wish I wish tonight.

by Unknown

2. Twinkle, twinkle, little star,

How I wonder what you are,

Up above the world so high,

Like a diamond in the sky.

When the blazing sun is set,

And the grass with dew is wet,

Then you show your little light,

Twinkle, twinkle, all the night.

As your bright and tiny spark

Lights the traveller in the dark,

Though I know not what you are,

Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

by Jane Taylor

Any English Majors Out There??
Alliteration is the repetition of the beginning consonat sounds of words, as in 'twinkle, twinkle, little, star'...repetition of 't' sounds.

I don't detect much assonance in either poem. Most of the lines rhyme exactly. Assonance is a near rhyme scheme, such as rhyming "high" with "sky"...they sound the same but the consonants are different.

"Like a diamond in the sky" is use of imagery. Comparing a star in the night sky to a diamond twinkling. Or comparing a star to a "bright and tiny spark". A star, of course is neither one, but when you make these comparisons, the reader better understands what you're talking about.

Listed below are three books with helpful information and definitions and examples.

Who are your favorite movie directors of all time?

2011-11-19T01:01:00.001-08:00

My favorites are;

Mel Brooks - Blazing Saddles %26amp; Young Frankenstein

Steven Speelburg - Raiders of the Lost Ark (trilogy,) Transformers, and many others

George Lucas - Star Wars (Trilogy)

Quenton Terrantino - Kill Bill (series)

Alfred Hitchcock - Psycho %26amp; Alfred Hitchcock Presents

Peter Jackson - Lord of the Rings (Trilogy)

Frances Ford Coppola - Godfather (Trilogy)

Tim Burton - Edward Sisorhands

Who are your favorite movie directors of all time?
Steven Spielberg

Peter Jackson

Paul Thomas Anderson

Ridley Scott

The Coen Brothers
Reply:Martin Scorsese - Raging Bull

Francis Ford Coppola - The Godfather and Apocalypse Now

John Huston - Treasure Of The Sierra Madre

Orson Welles - Citizen Kane

Stanley Kubrick - Dr. Strangelove

Warren Beatty - Reds

Clint Eastwood - Unforgiven
Reply:Stanley Kubrik, Francis Ford Coppola, Ridley Scott, Martin Scorcese.
Reply:Oliver Stone

Quentin Tarantino

Martin Scorcese

Frances Ford Coppola
Reply:Scorcese

Burton

Tarantino

Hitchcock
Reply:Tim Burton and Quentin Terrantino are my favs. :)

shoe care product

Anyway we can just get rid of Kobe?

2011-11-19T01:01:00.000-08:00

And trade him for Greg Oden? That guys a stud and he is going to be a great asset to any team he signs with. I cant believe the trailblazers still havnt signed him! I guess thats why they are called the blazing trees!

Kobe may have been the correct choice to keep to build a young all star team, but he is nothing but a selfish diva. He ran every single talent we had out of the Lakers. I dont think he is a rapist, i think that woman in colorado was looking for a huge pay day. But this case brought out the fact that he is a true narcissist.

Good riddance to Yoko Ocho!

Anyway we can just get rid of Kobe?
kobe wont go to portland for oden... the salaries wont add up at all and he has a no trade clause so he has to accept where he is going... he wont go to phoenix for sure so its either chicago or new york... i think the chicago trade would be for the best but then we wouldn't have a leader for the team... the way kobe is complaining is pretty much him comitting career suicide tho
Reply:Kobe can go anywhere except Phoenix!!!!! My sister loves the Suns, but hates Kobe and she would cry if he ends up on Phoenix!!!
Reply:I just hope he doesn't end up in Chicago. I am not a Kobe fan and if he didn't win a championship in LA he isn't gonna win one anywhere else until he learns to stop being a ball hog.
Reply:F THAT GREGS BIG BUT HES NOT THE BEST PLAYER,KOBE GOT LOTS OF CHAMPIONSHIPS IF HE DOES GO I WANT TO SEE HIM IN A PHENOX UNIFORM NOT A BULLS UNIFORM.KOBE IS A GREAT PLAYER.

What would it take?

2011-11-19T01:00:00.003-08:00

“What would someone have to do to get a star from you,” he asked coquettishly, batting his eyes, dimples blazing, smiling his million dollar smile.

What would it take?
I try to give all my new friends a star, but sometimes I forget. Here's yours...
Reply:All you had to do was ask......There you go, do you feel better......Your welcome.....
Reply:alright alright

I'll give you a star

haha
Reply:Nope. Just ask.

Here you go. 1 Star
Reply:maybe if you gave me a carrot?
Reply:quit beggin

Please read this un - finished novel and give us some more ideas!!! please!!!?

2011-11-19T01:00:00.002-08:00

Summer Days. . .

A story of friendship and endless summer

By: MICD productions

West Side Airport

Manhattan, New York

Terminal 63 Floor 5

June 19

8:19 a.m.

Adriana Davis sat patiently on her Louis Vouttion luggage with a copy of Allure on her lap. Flipping through the gossiping section about Brittany Spears, she sipped her mocha latte from the Star bucks in the food court. It was almost the end of June and she and her best friends, Amber, Tina, and Cali, were headed off to beautiful Black Point, Hawaii for spring break. Adriana could just picture it now. Stepping out of midnight black limo onto a red velvet rug outside of a five star hotel. Young hotel bellhops offering her non-alcoholic beverages. As orange orchids waved in the breeze in tan stucco boxes with ivy plants cascading out them. Walking through the golden spinning door into a beautiful lobby. Lots of other -soon to be-graduates and adults would be there waiting to be check in. Admiring the beautiful stained glass windows and new age paintings on the walls. A bronze chandelier with teardrop shaped bulbs flickers over head. It was perfect.

Adriana was a beautiful girl with wavy summer brown hair with light blonde streaks and been lucky enough to have been born with pool water color eyes. Its actually looks as if you could actually dive into them. Amber is a skinny tanned girl with very dark -almost black- hair and cat shaped, bright green eyes. She loves it when people say she looks like an innocent kitten. Tina is an Asian beauty. She has light skin but glossy black hair and light almond colored eyes. Cali is the most boy crazy one of the girls. Her shoulder length blonde hair and dark brown eyes always are getting compliments.

Adriana checked her icy blue T-Mobile Sidekick for e-mails or IM’s. None. She wondered where her friends were. When she heard some girls yelling “Adriana,” she turned around to see her friends running towards her with over stuffed suitcases. Tina was in the new Emilie Coach Sandals trailing behind the other girls with a Cinnabon bag in her hand. Adriana could smell the warm, freshly baked cinnamon buns from far away. Yum. When everyone was caught up, they all gave each other a group hug.

“Our plane leaves in 10 minutes. What do you wanna do?” Tina asked. Cali bent over and struggled with the zipper on her Prada Messenger Bag and took out a misty green iPod nano and her white iHome. “We could listen to my new iPod if you want. I got two days ago.” “Cool! Lemme see!” Amber took the iPod out of Cali’s manicured hands and flicked it on. The screen went snow white and amber vigorously searched for her favorite song; Makes me Wonder by Maroon 5. Her father used to manage all kinds of unsigned artists and once, before Maroon 5 was a real famous band, she met them.

The thumping beat of the song started playing once docked in the iHome and all four girls sat down and discussed plans for while in Hawaii.

“Well, I heard from some people at school that there’s going to be an Earth Fest,” Tina said excitedly.

“A What?” the other girls asked.

“An Earth Fest. You know, like a free concert.” She explained.

Tina was overly obsessed with any type of music. Especially pop and rock. Her blinding smile was shown and her dancing almond colored eyes flickered with happiness.

“That’s cool! We should go!” Cali said in a very overjoyed voice.

“ Yeah! It would be fun,” Adriana said.

“Who’s going to be there?” Amber asked.

“+44, John Mayer, The Academy Is…, Matt Kearney, Avril Lavigne, and Daughtry.” Tina answered.

“OHMIGOD!! +44 and The Academy is..?! I LOVE them!” Adriana practically yelled.

“I like all of them! Except, I’ve never heard of Matt Kearney.” Amber said.

The next song came on. It was Golden by Fall Out Boy.

“Matt Kearney is kind’ of pop rockish and really cool. We can listen to him on the plane.”

The girls began to sing along to Golden.

And I saw god crying the reflection of my enemies

And all the lovers with no time for me

And all the mothers raise their babies

Just stay away from me….

“Flight 168 to Black Point, Hawaii now boarding,” a mans voice said over the intercom. It echoed down the long spiral hall as people began to get up and throw coffee cups and magazines away to board the plane.

All the girls got up and gathered there things and Cali shut off her iPod. She popped it in her bag and trailed behind the other girls. The Dark colored woman outside of the plane held her hand out for the flight tickets and when she punched them through the silver ticket machine, the group made there way down the long hallway into the plane.

West Point Airlines

Flight 168

Seats: 13a, 13,b and 13c

11:05 am

Amber, Tina and Cali sat in there tall leather seats as their waitress, Gisele, brought them there Mexican Iced Teas. Adriana, had a seat that was far away from the other girls. Even though she loved her friends, she liked a little quiet. Besides, she had the whole row to herself. She began to watch Step Up on the TV screen near her when she got an IM form xohugsandkisses1354(A.K.A. Cali) She signed on her screen name (MiSSADRiANAx44) and began typing on her T Mobile Sidekick

xohugsandkisses1354: want me to move bak near u?

MiSSADRiANAX44: No. that’s ok. I have to write to Sean anyways. Something that I don’t want other people to know. Srry

xohugsandkisses1354: oh. M’kay. Ttys xoxo

xohugsandkisses1354 has signed off at 11:12 am

Adriana sat deeply in her seat as she began to type her message to Sean; her one true boyfriend. He had brown curly hair and a perfect face. And beautiful blazing blue; true eyes. She could always see the hurt in his eyes when he was sad. He was the all- star lacrosse player and the East Side Eagles were going to the championships! They have been together since the beginning of the year and now that it was May, they were officially lovebirds.

She really wanted him to come on the trip with her but, he had to stay for his mothers birthday trip to Mexico. At-least he would come back tanned. Just then, she received a text message from Amber (A.K.A. LilBballgirl19706)

LilBballgirl19706: Hi

MiSSADRiANAX44: Hey

LilBballgirl19706: I cant b live ur sitting by your self. R u SURRE u don’t want me 2 come back there? Or anyone of us?

MiSSADRiANAX44: yes….I’m fine

LilBballgirl19706: r u surre?

MiSSADRiANAX44: YEA!! IM SURE! Sry 4 yelling but, u guys keep asking me and I’m just fine

LilBballgirl19706: kk. srry

MiSSADRiANAX44: I forgive you J

LilBballgirl19706: hehe. R u missing sean?

MiSSADRiANAX44: Hell yEA

LilBballgirl19706: haha! Wonder how Cancun is going 4 him

MiSSADRiANAX44: me too. I’m gonna call him and ask/

LilBballgirl19706: k. ttyl xoxoxox

MiSSADRiANAX44: J

MiSSADRiANAX44 has signed off at 11:16

Adriana snapped her sidekick shut and stuffed it in her Burberry purse and began to dug through the disaster of a purse she had to find her cell phone. She flipped down the small, light gray table hanging off the back of the seat in front of her and place the purse there. She had just gotten it three days before and already, the $495 purse had been reduce to a teenager wasteland. She dug through her iPod, two mini crossword puzzles, 4 lip gloss tubes, two eyeliner crayons, three tubes of mascara, 3 tubes of lipstick, her sidekick, two packages of Orbit Gum (Tropical Citrus and Bubblemint), three old photos of her dog Selena, her silver Sony Cyber shot DSCW55 7.2MP Digital Camera, chewed up pencils, her Dooney and Bourke bubble wristlet credit card wallet (with 5 Platinum credit cards and $687.58 in cash) makeup remover, tissues and her car keys (which she didn’t need this week). She finally pulled out her phone from that bottomless pit of a bag and flicked it open. The bright blue light blinded her for a moment then she pressed ‘4’ (Sean was speed dial4 because of 4 letters in his name). And the phone began to ring.

Ring.

Ring.

Ring.

“Hey. You’ve Reached Sean-o. Leave me a message. I’ll get back to you later.” It was the answering machine. So, Adriana left a message.

“Hey Sean. Its Adriana and I just wanted to see how Mexico is. So, text me later or call back. Alright, I love you. Bye.” and she snapped the phone shut.

She woke up to the sound of her T Mobile Sidekick ringing. She had fallen asleep. When she saw the time of the 3” by 2” screen, she’d realized she’d only fallen asleep for five minutes. Man, the pillows were comfy. It wasn’t a phone call. It was a text Message. From Sean. Adriana got excited and signed on quickly. She realized he had sent it to her two minutes ago. He’d signed off already. But, she read the message anyways. Sean(A.K.A. Lacrosseboi13998)

Lacrosseboi13998: Hey Girl. Listen I just don’t think we should see each other anymore. Christina Lillian…she….she stole my heart. I’m sorry. I know you’d never wanna b friends now but, I hope we can be. I cant, just CANT, go out with you anymore. Ok. G2g. Mom wants go go get seaglass on the beahc. Bye.

Lacrosseboi13998 has signed off at 11:21 am

A little mascar tear fell off her eye and right onto the keyboard of the Sidekick. She closed it and it away in her Burberry bag and more tears started to come. But, she held them down. Crying on planes wasn’t right. At that moment, Adriana didn’t even want the plane to land in Hawaii- she wanted to go home and forget about the whole stupid vacation.Black Point Airport

Black Point, Hawaii

5:44 pm

As the plane touched the cement on the Hawaiian airport, Adriana wans’t very excited. The fact ther her boy friend had just dumped her….put out her flame for her entire trip. Ashley Lillian? She thought as she grabbed her Prada duffel and her Burberry purse. Wow. What a total looser. Once she had all of her things she began, slowly, to make her way out of the plane. The image of Ashley Lillian, popped into her head. The Red curly hair the powerful blue eyes, her skinny freckled legs and arms and neon pink braces gave her a frightful image. She immediately stopped thinking about it.

When she stepped into the marble floors of the Black Point Airport, she was in heaven. Even though her boyfriend had just dumped her, she had forgotten about it for a minute. She looked around.

Please read this un - finished novel and give us some more ideas!!! please!!!?
thats a great story why did it have to end tell me when pt2 of it is her plzz this is a great novel forget aout the other people i love teen books like this wht is it gannna be called email me and tell me and they must dont read alot i read a 200 pg books every week imma book fanatic keep writing u have my rep
Reply:Sorry Kinda Lost Interest At The Part About Graduates And Other Young Adults Waiting In The Lobby.....GEEZ
Reply:You refer to too much name brands. It makes it harder and harder for a person to relate. Its okay to be descriptive with something. Infact thats what makes some great writing great. But the more that you include particulars about ice blue sidekicks and specific magazines, it alienates your readers. I consiter myself pretty tech savy but I dont understand all the specifics you talk about.

Be descriptive in other ways... talk about the sounds of hte airport and what not so people can imagine it and relate it to themselfs.

Anyways hope i helped,

best of luck

Also make the plot more clear so there is a point to the story towards the beginning that will make the reader interested in reading that whole thing.
Reply:First off, darling, you can't post something from your heart here on this forum and ask that no rude comments be made.....is begging for them.

Second....enough with the brand names....no one cares, we want meat to the story, not technology. and the screen names are confusing, if you plan to use them a great deal, make them simpler, so we take them in, not just jump over them.

And third, screw what people think. This is your work. Every one likes different things. Keep it yours and at the end, at least you will be proud to stand back and say that it is yours.

Good luck.
Reply:this "unfinished novel" is just another stupid teen fiction book they all have the same lam ideas and plot lines... please step out of the box for 1 second of your life and atleast try to be creative
Reply:Sorry, but you totally lost me with all the dialouge and no establishment of who the characters are and why I should be interested in their lives.
Reply:I found it a little difficult to read, it just didnt flow for me. I had to constantly stop and reread sections. But it's a great effort and you shouldnt let a few negative comments stop you. Keep going with it
Reply:Umm.. well.. okay, to tell you the truth, I read the first few sentences, skimmed the entire middle, and read the last few sentences. And I don't have any new ideas for you, so in truth, I am not helping you at all. But I do have some criticism:

No offense to you.. but.. this did not interest me at all. It's just another annoying rich teen girl story - these are already abundant enough and I really don't know too many people that like them. As another person already said, the overuse of name brands is a turn-off. One bit that I found particularly annoying was.. "“OHMIGOD!! +44 and The Academy is..?! I LOVE them!” Adriana practically yelled." ... First, please, please, PLEASE, never use OHMIGOD ever again. Please. Second, I think alot of people would be annoyed that the character you created "loves" +44 and The Academy Is..., because Adriana seems so..preppy.. and mentioning those bands just sort of screams poser. Also, please fix your grammar/punctuation and spelling...

On the positive side, your plot (though at this point it seems nonexistant, but I'm sure that that's because this is the very beginning of the story and the plot is just not evident yet).. anyways, your story is in the lines of what seems to be popular with teen girls today, who I'm assuming are your audience. You use alot of details (like in describing the girl at the end with the red hair), which is good.

Overall, ... okay, please don't kill me, lol... 3/10. But this is just my opinion, and if you are writing this for yourself, don't get discouraged by what anyone, including me, says.
Reply:Take it to fictionpress.com or a forum for such a purpose. This really isn't the purpose of this site.

Some comments: this doesn't seem like my sort of story, but I'll give you my thoughts anyway (you dont have to agree with them). It seems a little boring, little interesting happens. You should get to the 'hook' of the story early on. Also, the text/IM convos could be reported rather than repeated verbatim, eg, "Amber sent her a text asking her if she still missed Sean".

Still, it looks promising, and I admire anyone who actually tires to write a novel. It's a challenge, but a worthy one, even if it never gets published. All creative work is to be treasured.
Reply:I'm not an expert, but I know interesting characters usually aren't perfect. Those are the ones we like to watch.

Adriana inherited her fathers thick ankles. Other than that, she was almost gorgeous. Her wavy brown hair was usually pulled back behind her pointy ears. Her eyes hid flecks of azure and greys. Her perfect smile, though helped her stand out among her friends.

Maybe something like that...

You have many strengths.

Don't give up-Use criticism to find your weaknesses.
Reply:I got lost after about 3 paragraphs. Your characters are stiff and wooden and totally dull. You need to work on a really good outline and then some good character analysis. Your characters need to be fleshed out and you need to start developing some subplots or back stories. If I had to keep reading this, it would drive me insane. Character analysis doesnt mean knowing what kind of luggage she has or what kind of cellphone she has. That is juvenile "Clique" style writing.

An editor would red pen about 90% of this in the first 5 minutes. I would. Pax - C